XPost: alt.poetry, alt.religion.wicca, rec.arts.poems   
   XPost: alt.arts.poetry.comments   
   From: ironywaves@knology.net   
      
   Sick Mind wrote:   
   > "Will Dockery" wrote   
   >   
   > > Jani wrote:   
   >   
   >    <  ...  >   
   >   
   > >>>> The Catholics also converted many Roman Gods into Saints.   
   >   
   > >>>     I am sure that back then there were people just as confused as   
   > >>> you.  I doubt you or they could make a case for anything.   
   >   
   > >> Oh, c'mon, you've heard of St Mars, St Juno, St Venus? found in   
   > >> stained-glass windows in churches everywhere! :)   
   >   
   > > In a word, yes. The statues and paintings of Mary holding baby Jesus   
   > > are often originally Isis with Osiris.   
   >   
   >      Before that there was never a mother and child?   
      
   May have been Mithras and his mama, actually.   
      
   > > I found this in the archives which covers the situation very well, for   
   > > now:   
   > >   
   > > From: Scott Freeh (afn64007@afn.org)   
   > > Subject: Roman gods in mufti!   
   > > Date: 1997/10/26   
   > >   
   > > First off, why should we have to pray to Jesus through Mary?  Why do we   
   > > have to assume that Jesus will not grant a prayer request if it comes   
   > > to   
   > > him directly?  Do some Catholics assume that their prayer is less   
   > > righteous so they need to enlist Mary as their agent to bring it before   
   > > Jesus Christ?  Prayer through Mary, St. Anthony, St. Francis, St. Jude,   
   > > or any other Vatican approved entity is contrary to what the Bible   
   > > teaches.   
   > >   
   > > The entire concept of sainthood as expressed in Roman Catholicism does   
   > > not make any sense at all.  It is, as far as I can tell, often a very   
   > > thinly veiled pagan idolatry.  Like the pagans of ancient Rome, the   
   > > Roman Catholic Church provides patron saints to many occupations.  That   
   > > is the same as when they were worshiping Jupiter and the whole lot in   
   > > Rome.  They had a god devoted to this or that.  Now in Catholicism   
   > > there   
   > > is the same thing.  Many of these saints have names that are remarkably   
   > > like their pre-Christian gods.   
   > >   
   > > The god Mars became St. Martine   
   >   
   >     Few realize Michael the Archangel was the sequel to the roman god   
   Mars.   
   >   
   > > The god Osiris became St. Onuphris   
   > > The god Artemis became St. Artemidos   
   >   
   >      All this proves is that the Catholics did not invent a new alphabet,   
   > which is what they would have had to do to avoid similarities like that.   
   >   
   > > and in one of the most famous Catholic transformations:   
   > >   
   > > Brighidt, an ancient Celtic deity, is now St. Bridget.  Her fire was   
   > > legendary before Christianity came to Ireland.   
   > >   
   > > Many of the sites in Rome formerly dedicated to Roman gods now have   
   > > chapels and churches dedicated to saints with Christianized names   
   > > sounding suspiciously like ancient Roman gods.   
   > >   
   > > The Pantheon in Rome is an ancient Roman temple dedicated to the god   
   > > Jove.  The Church stuck a halo over the head on a famous large statue   
   > > of   
   > > the Roman god Jupiter, and then renamed the statue Peter.  This statue   
   > > of Peter is now revered by the Roman Catholic church to the point that   
   > > the popes and the faithful kiss the toe of the ancient idol.  This mark   
   > > of reverence is actually a facet of ancient Baal worship.  Now remember   
   > > that in 1 Kings 19 the Lord reserved 7,000 in Israel who did not bow to   
   > > the idol or kiss the idol which was Baal.  The point seemed to be that   
   > > those who did bow to the idol or kiss the idol were less than pure.   
   > > The   
   > > statue's foot has been kissed so many times that the toes are wearing   
   > > away.  I have seen a photograph of Pope John XXIII about to kiss that   
   > > statue.  By the way, in the photo, the statue was dressed as pope with   
   > > the three tiered crown.   
   >   
   >      Why isn't a cross a "graven image"?  It seems all Christians,   
   Catholic   
   > or not, use those a lot.   
      
   When Christ and his posse return to kick ass, the last thing he'll want to   
   see is a cross.   
      
   > > Many Gods were switched over to Saints to lure more into the church   
   > > with less difficulties.   
      
   ----   
   From: K   
   Subject: Re: Datarat is a Breaker of Gods law and is lying.   
   View: Complete Thread (200 articles)   
   Date: 2000-10-03 12:39:59 PST   
      
   Dave, I found this article a while back.  You should read it; you will learn   
   something of the Catholic church.   
      
   Here you go:   
      
   For 1600 hundred years the Catholic Church has claimed that they were the   
   Original Church.  By "church" they do not mean the building of stone and   
   wood,   
   but rather the religion.  Rescently they have begun mailing out booklets   
   that   
   tell people that they must be Catholic to be Christian.   
      
   I:      What constitutes a religion?   
      
   A religion is any belief in a super natural entity that governs the universe   
   and its associated system of faith and worship.   
      
   "Faith" in this case, refers to theology, the belief in a god and the   
   definition of that god.  This includes the accepted system for knowing the   
   god   
   in question.   
      
   "Worship" in this case, refers to the practices used to worship the god in   
   question.  This includes the types of services, the times for these services   
   as well as any, and all "holy days."   
      
      
   II:     What event or series of events determine the origin of a religion?   
      
   The origin of a religion is simply the point at which the defining faith and   
   worship of the religion in question came into practice.   
      
   Even when there is a defined leadership of a previous religion that converts   
   en masse, a new religion is formed due to the change in faith and worship.   
      
      
   III:    What are doctrines of the Catholic Church?   
      
   Since the doctrines of the Catholic Church are very extensive, I will deal   
   only with the short list recently mailed to people in a booklet entitled   
   "Pillar of Fire Pillar of Truth."  Since this booklet was published with   
   permission of the Catholic Church and has passed the Catholic book censors,   
   there can be not argument that the doctrines described in the book are   
   actual   
   Catholic doctrines, though they obviously do not comprise the entirety of   
   Catholic doctrine.   
      
   "These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence   
   of   
   Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness   
   of   
   sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory,   
   Mary's special role and much more.("Pillar of Fire Pillar of Truth" page 6)"   
   These are some of the beliefs that need to be examined.   
      
   Additionally, Catholic Church believes in "infant baptism, the inerrancy of   
   the Bible, purgatory, and Mary's perpetual virginity.("Pillar of Fire Pillar   
   of Truth" page 6)"   
      
   IV:     Do these doctrines have their origin in the ministry of the Messiah?   
      
   Let's look at the origins of these doctrines:   
      
   1.      Resurrection of the Messiah was part of Judaism for centuries prior   
   to   
   the coming of Messiah.  It is still found in the Talmud; as such, it is a   
   Jewish doctrine.  Messianic Jews of the first century were the first to   
   accept   
   the Resurrection of Yeshua (Jesus) as an accomplished fact.   
      
   2.      The Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist is not a biblical   
   doctrine   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)