From: muta...@gmail.com   
      
   On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 2:08:19 PM UTC+8, muta...@gmail.com wrote:   
      
   > > any of those systems as a development platform to write a    
   > > program that is then placed into the public domain. Your little    
   > > toy is completely superfluous.   
      
   > Wrong way around.    
   >    
   > You can use a public domain OS to create a copyrighted OS.    
   >    
   > If there is some restriction on using someone else's    
   > copyrighted product. E.g. Kim might say "Marx says    
   > that all property is theft - we don't want to use an OS    
   > that is stolen capitalist property" or whatever commies    
   > may come up with.    
   >    
   > Or some other desire for clean room development.    
      
   In the case of the Australian High Court, they completely   
   fabricated that there was an "implied" right to freedom   
   of speech in the Constitution, to strike down legislation   
   that they personally didn't like, and it was so much easier   
   than going to the effort of creating a Bill of Rights, or   
   updating the real constitution instead of their imaginary one.   
      
   So they may say that Microsoft has an implied right that you   
   can't develop a rival to Windows using Windows.   
      
   They may even say the same about Linux.   
      
   PDOS would be the hardest thing for them to say that about.   
      
   Not sure what the would even mean. The public has an implied   
   right that you can't write a commercial OS?   
      
   That would have to be applied to Shakespeare's work too - and   
   defeats the whole purpose and concept of public domain.   
      
   Again - courts can make anything at all up, so who knows what   
   they will do, but again, public domain is the best protection   
   from arbitrary "justice" by courts.   
      
   Of course, even with public domain, the court could say that   
   the sequence Fujitsu (e.g.) used to develop Fujitsu/x86 using   
   PDOS/386 was preceded by a Windows to PDOS/386   
   transition, so Fujitsu aren't allowed to sell their OS in   
   (some arbitrary jurisdiction).   
      
   But if a court were to go to that extreme, Windows isn't the   
   first OS to be invented, and the courts can ping Microsoft   
   for being in a chain of OSes from the 1950s or whatever.   
      
   But a court may draw the line at 1 transition or 2 transitions.   
      
   So there would be some benefit in perhaps punching some   
   newly-written machine code onto punched cards, to boot up   
   a z/Arch machine, which would be used to create some x86   
   machine code on paper tape and then onto floppy and then   
   onto hard disk. Or some such sequence.   
      
   I'm not sure card readers are still available, so maybe some   
   other medium that humans can manipulate without the   
   need for an existing OS.   
      
   This would still require courts to not claim that either the   
   mainframe controller software or microcode or the PC BIOS   
   are rival OSes, so are allowed to be used.   
      
   That may not be perfect, but it's another level of distance.   
      
   Not sure if an alternate computer instead of a PC, hand-made,   
   maybe even with a FPGA could be used to create even more   
   distance.   
      
   I can abandon ELF that at least one person is claiming is   
   copyrighted to the extent that even the names of standard   
   fields can't be used.   
      
   I prefer a.out, but it may have the same issue. Certainly   
   macro names like N_TEXT are from presumably-copyrighted   
   documentation.   
      
   I could possibly keep the a.out format but just invent new   
   names for anything I need. I already know the format of   
   a.out, since it's simple, so I just need to name each field   
   instead of using the names everyone else uses.   
      
   Depends how many asshole judges there are, worldwide.   
      
   But if I were to start that process, I would need to first   
   ensure there was a way of entering machine code   
   on some device without the aid of an OS. All my current   
   devices have OSes.   
      
   I could potentially wipe a hard disk and have an EFI   
   shell. Any OS I write (ie a rewrite of PDOS-generic)   
   wouldn't be a rival to EFI. Although even then, you   
   never know. And I'm not sure an EFI shell provides   
   the facilities required to slowly construct some   
   machine code. By doing echo and using Alt-numpad   
   to enter arbitrary data.   
      
   What about an original PC with ROM BASIC and   
   without installing PCDOS? I believe the PS/2 still   
   had ROM BASIC, so I don't need an original PC.   
      
   Presumably the Commodore 64 which also comes   
   with BASIC in ROM can't be used, because it also   
   has an OS, so not the equivalent of a real IBM PC.   
      
   BFN. Paul.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)