From: cr88192@gmail.com
On 7/22/2024 6:58 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> BGB writes:
>> On 7/22/2024 3:14 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> BGB writes:
>>>> On 7/22/2024 9:51 AM, John Ames wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 19 Jul 2024 23:21:22 GMT
>>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Poor performance, silly filename length limitations.
>>>>>
>>>>> I dunno, 8.3 is downright spacious compared to a number of actual
>>>>> mainframe operating systems...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Looking some, it seems:
>>>> MS-DOS: 8.3
>>>> Commodore: 15.0
>>>> Apple ProDOS: 16.0
>>>> Apple Macintosh: 31.0 (HFS)
>>>> Early Unix: 14 (~ N.M where N+M+1 <= 14)
>>>
>>> Although file suffixes had no intrinsic meaning
>>> for Unix, and were seldom more than a single
>>> character.
>>>
>>
>> There were/are lots of 3 or 4 character file extensions, like ".cpp" or
>> ".html", ...
>>
>> In Linux, there are lots of multi-part extensions, like ".tar.gz", etc.
>
> The point is, they are arbitrary and not required. Tar quite happly
> will unpack an archive named archive, without any extension.
>
> We've seen, with windows, that when the operating system
> (or the user) trusts the extension to accurately reflect the
> content of the file, bad things happen.
>
Bigger problem I think is that the OS defaults to hiding the file
extensions and many users trust the icon...
So, if they download something with a filename like "SurveyForm.pdf.exe"
with an Acrobat icon, they will assume it is a PDF.
>
>>>> Whereas TENEX and some others were 6 character.
>>>> OS4000: 8 character
>>>> VAX/VMS (and others): 6.3
>>>
>>> VMS filenames were 17 character orignally, openvms
>>> allows much longer names.
>>>
>>
>> When I was looking at it, VAX/VMS was listed as 6.3, whereas OpenVMS was
>> longer. Could be wrong, it was a fairly quick/dirty search.
>
> I was a systems programmer on the VAX 11/780 for four years
> back in the day. And we had a source license :-)
>
OK.
I didn't exist at the time that machine was new...
When my span of existence began, Compaq was making IBM PC clones, and
the NES had already been released. So, some of what information I can
gather is second hand.
Well, and I guess there was also TRON, and the "north american video
game crash" (where apparently they buried a crapload of Atari 2600 E.T.
cartridges in a landfill, ...).
Well, and then I guess Nintendo releasing the NES and Super Mario Bros,
etc. At this point, I existed.
But, like, about the earliest memories I have, are mostly of watching
the "Super Mario" cartoons, and shows like "Captain N" (at a time before
I really started messing with computers, memories from this time are
rather fragmentary).
But, these went away, and were replaced by the "Sonic The Hedgehog"
cartoons, and shows like "ReBoot". I started using computers as Windows
3.x gave way to Windows 95 (was still in elementary school at the time).
Mostly, started using computers around 3rd grade or so; at the time
computers generally running Windows 3.11 or similar (then followed by
Windows 95).
By middle school, the world had mostly moved on to Windows 98, but I was
odd and decided to run Windows NT4 (and by high-school went over to
Windows 2000, with Windows XP then making its appearance, ...).
Well, and also poking around on/off with Linux.
For me though, computers now are not all that much different from what I
had in high-school (in the early 2000s).
Most obvious changes being:
More RAM, bigger HDDs;
Loss of floppy drives and CRT monitors;
No more parallel port;
Going from IDE to SATA;
...
Well, and other changes:
The world went from flip-phones to smartphones;
Tablets appeared, and became semi popular;
Laptops went from being cheap and decent, to expensive and kinda trash.
But, now I am an aging millennial and have arguably not accomplished all
that much with my life.
>
>>
>> But, yeah, 1024 for an overall path limit makes more sense than 260.
>> For my own project, I had assumed 512, but either way...
>
> As noted, that's the POSIX minimum. Implementations are free
> to support more, if properly documented.
>
Fair enough; could increase the internal limit if needed...
>>
>> Well, excluding AF_UNIX sockets, which as-is will have a 104 character
>> name limit... Though, this is more because of the layout for
>> "sockaddr_un" (where "sockaddr_storage" generally supports up to 128
>> bytes for the total size).
>
> A different namespace, of course, will have different rules.
>
Possible.
Some stuff I read implied that AF_UNIX socket addresses were supposed to
map to files in the VFS, but on current systems (like Linux) this does
not seem to be the case.
So, pretty much any arbitrary string will work, but by convention it is
meant to be a VFS path.
>>
>> Internally though, the idea isn't that the actual path for these sockets
>> is used though, but rather they are mashed into a 128-bit hash (where,
>> internally pretty much everything can be treated as-if it were IPv6).
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> For most uses, a 32 character limit would probably be fine.
>>>
>>> In your use cases, perhaps.
>>>
>>
>> IME, the vast majority of "normal" files tend to have names shorter than
>> 32 characters.
>>
>> The video files (within YouTube or similar) seem to primarily use
>> shorter alphanumeric names, but the video downloaders tend to use the
>> title as a filename (so may generate longer names...).
>
> There's more to the world than what you see.
>
From what I have seen, we have:
Traditional Unix paths, like:
"/usr/local/bin/x86_64-linux-elf-gcc"
Traditional Windows paths:
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Some Program\ProgName.EXE"
Traditional source-code naming conventions;
...
Most tending to, most of the time, leading to file-names shorter than 32
characters.
But, as noted, the main exception is using YouTube video titles as
filenames, but even most of these tend to only rarely exceed 100 characters.
Like, say, a "typical" example (actual file name):
"Raggedy Ann - Andy A Musical Adventure 1977 35mm Ultra HD.mp4"
Which weighs in at 62 characters... Also this movie was kinda odd.
But, yeah, I have watched some older shows / movies as well.
Well, another example, in the form of a video title:
"Rainbow Brite Beginning of Rainbow Land Part 1.mp4"
Dunno, this stuff is probably still on YouTube (goes and checks; yeah,
seems 80s Rainbow Brite is still around... I found the show enjoyable at
least).
Well, and I guess technically, if someone wanted, they could go and
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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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