From: nospam@needed.invalid   
      
   On Sat, 9/27/2025 1:16 PM, Jim wrote:   
   > Quite a few years I purchased a white label HDD from an eBay seller.   
   >   
   > It was an HGST 8TB (model HUG728080ALN600 -- guessing) manufactured in June,   
   2017.  If the attachment to this post worked out, it is a flatbed scan of the   
   label.   
   >   
   > Anyway, I never could get it formatted and partitioned.  I rediscovered it   
   yesterday while cleaning and organizing a closet.   
   >   
   > From what I recall, this drive was "built for video surveillance and could   
   not be used for a computer".  That statement never made sense to me and I've   
   never had similar problems with other hard drives.   
   >   
   > When I plugged it into my SATA-->USB caddy, just now, LM didn't recognize   
   it.  I ran GParted, just in case it did something different. No joy.   
   >   
   > FWIW, my desktop is running LM 21.3 Cinnamon.   
   >   
   > Before I toss the HDD, I thought I'd ask for either a better explanation as   
   to why I'll never get it to work, or for the proper steps to take to make it   
   work.   
   >   
   > Thanks, jim.   
   >   
   > P.S.  My post failed (probably because of the attachment).  Someone please   
   remind me where to put pictures and how to link to to them.   
      
   Hitachi Ultrastar He8 0F23662 / HUH728080ALN600 8TB 6Gbps 7.2K   
      
     *4Kn*  <===   
      
   Enterprise SATA HDD - Brand New   
      
   *******   
      
   Name   LogicalSize PhysicalSize   Comment    (sudo fdisk /dev/sda  can report   
   logical and physical... on a "p" for print, "q" for quit)   
      
   512n       512         512        Not many made any more, the original disk   
   format   
                                     I have somw WDRe and WDGold like this.   
      
   512e       512        4096        Most common consumer drive, may see   
   "Advanced" on label.   
                                     RAM cache now really works on these drives,   
   and is used   
                                     for RMW operations to "edit" a 512 byte   
   section of a 4K sector   
      
   4Kn       4096        4096        These are evil, in that there aren't as many   
   tools to work   
                                     with these. As a boot drive, should work   
   under UEFI boot   
                                     (secure or not secure). As a Data Drive,   
   should work past   
                                     Linux kernel 2.6 . It is unclear to me, what   
   an MBR looks like   
                                     on a disk like this. Test on a UEFI   
   motherboard and seek an   
                                     opinion in the BIOS screen, as to whether it   
   is detected   
                                     at BIOS level. In a steeplechase, you jump   
   over one hurdle   
                                     at a time. First you use the BIOS, to prove   
   it runs. Stick your   
                                     ear on it and listen for "hum" or "burble"   
   as it self-tests.   
                                     The "burble" means at least the heads   
   loaded. Hitachi drives   
                                     are ready around the 25 second mark (take   
   sweet time on spinup).   
      
   For a short time, 4Kn drives were sold on Newegg. The rate   
   of return was high enough, to make Newegg think twice about   
   stocking those :-) I have been tempted on occasion, to buy   
   something like that, just for compatibility testing, but   
   never got around to it.   
      
   Pseudo-4K USB enclosures, a few exist. I do not remember the   
   details, except that the drive was reporting LogicalSize of 4K,   
   for a 512e drive. Something like that.   
      
   I have a suspicion the average USB3 enclosure, may not   
   like that drive either (when doing physical access, and   
   not "faking it" like in the previous paragraph. Unless specifically   
   stated that an enclosure supports 4Kn, there is no reason to assume   
   every USB works with absolutely every drive type. A USB3 enclosure   
   should always work with 512n and 512e.   
      
   And 512 sector drives are not the only type. IBM used   
   to make some weird sector sizes, a bit bigger than 512.   
   And as far as I'm concerned, if that was added to the   
   table above, it would earn a "more evil than 4Kn" rating :-)   
   I do not recollect any postings at all from USENETTers in   
   possession of something that bad (likely IDE drive era).   
      
   The Wikipedia could be a useful resource at this time,   
   like the 4Kn article.   
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Format   
      
   Looks like UEFI gets honorable mention as an ingredient for boot.   
      
   I don't see a reason you can't have fun with it, but first   
   we have to ignore the OS choice and concentrate on BIOS response.   
      
   If the (UEFI!) BIOS refuses to list the drive ("detection" phase),   
   then you're screwed. Helium drives can hold their helium   
   for a long time, but the warranty is typically five years.   
   The Helioseal is implemented as an adhesive. It is a   
   kind of double-sided tape that prevents the helium from   
   leaving. The welded lid on top is NOT a gas-tight seal.   
   It is the selected adhesive on the *first* lid that   
   holds the gas in. The welded lid prevents the adhesive lid   
   from popping off. The welded lid also provides some   
   mechanical protection. I do not recommend stacking Helium   
   drives in your storage cabinet, to any significant height.   
   That can't be good for those lids.   
      
   Some helium drives have a manometer, and SMART has a   
   pressure reading, but nobody has parsing software that works   
   properly to display anything about the health of the gas fill.   
   We don't know what the numbers mean.   
   Other drives, the SMART for gas pressure is unknown.   
      
   I own one Helium drive. It's part of my "sampling garbage" program :-)   
   It's to see how long the gas will stay in one of those. My   
   "sampling program" though, has not purchased a 4Kn for fun,   
   as I found too many aggrieved customers to attempt that.   
      
   It's sorta the same response with mixing SATA and SAS.   
   Many things are supposed to work, but a lot of the   
   home experimenters return their purchase. The data rates   
   achieved seem to be sub-normal, when you can get that   
   combo to work.   
      
   Computers are like the Wizard of Oz. You're always   
   wishing you were back in Kansas with your little dog.   
   You can consult with us anytime, you want some help   
   determining "good" from "evil" :-) And since my sampling   
   program has not bought one of these, you can see   
   what the marginal utility of the purchase could be.   
      
   Don't throw it away. We need experimenters like you to   
   sample these things and tell us what you finally got   
   to work with the thing. BIOS listing, is the first step.   
   Use a reasonably modern motherboard (less than ten years old).   
      
      Paul   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)