From: nospam@needed.invalid   
      
   On Tue, 10/21/2025 4:46 AM, Edmund wrote:   
   > GPU advise?   
   >   
   > Planning to go 4k and interested in Kali.   
   > Don't really care about gaming but Hi(er) frame rate   
   > in 4k on two monitors is a must, any suggestion and why?   
   >   
   >   
   > ps   
   > I read that although AMD works well nowadays, it doesn't support   
   > something needed for Hashcat (CUDA 5)   
      
   2D acceleration support, has not advanced in years.   
      
   3D support could be in the form of OpenGL or Vulcan,   
   and that can uses shaders on a card. The main acceleration   
   you might see then, is when gaming. For the games that use   
   accelerated 3D.   
      
   CUDA is part of that 3D support. and also runs shader CUDA   
   programs, where "computation is a side effect of pumping   
   other constructs through the shader engine". You can crack   
   passwords, just as easily as playing a game.   
      
   The lowest end current generation card is an RTX5050,   
   which would be gutless, but a bit stronger than a GTX1650.   
   The RTX5050 might be $250 USD. The RTX5090 might be $2000.   
   In all cases, the cards don't feel like value for money,   
   when compared to the price range of some previous generations.   
      
   AMD and Intel are OpenCL for computation rather than CUDA.   
      
   But just for the record, I've had considerable trouble   
   getting adventurous programs to use CUDA when it is offered.   
   A lot of programs will annoy you, by using the CPU version   
   of OpenCL. And after you've spent a lot of money,   
   receiving "resistance" from the application software,   
   is more than a bit unnerving.   
      
   I don't think my CUDA ever cracked a password, because   
   of the problems getting it to engage. Yes, 2GB of libraries   
   were loaded. I ticked all the boxes for the SDK on both programs.   
      
   I did manage to compile the "Smoke Demo" on Windows in Visual Studio   
   Community Edition, and that used CUDA OK. But some other codes,   
   like some stuff in KALI, I was getting refusal to proceed with   
   the CUDA and it just used the CPU (and promised a cracked   
   password in about 13 years or so).   
      
   Here is a table I keep for this. The cards use closed loop feedback   
   when running the silicon, and the power limit is policed by the   
   hardware. The driver adjusts the card clock, so the power is not exceeded.   
   An RTX5060 Ti 16GB for $430, would give 4608 CUDA cores and   
   be similar to a GTX1080 from 8 to 10 years ago. At least the three   
   top cards in the list, will require a power supply with a different   
   connector on it. You'll have to check the prices to re-calibrate my   
   numbers.   
      
   RTX 5090          GB202-300   21,760  32 GB, 512-bit  575 W   $2,000   
   RTX 5080 Super    GB203-450   10,752  24 GB, 256-bit ~415 W   TBD   
   RTX 5080          GB203-400   10,752  16 GB, 256-bit  360 W   $1,000   
   RTX 5070 Ti Super GB203-350    8,960  24 GB, 256-bit  350 W   TBD   
   RTX 5070 Ti       GB203-200    8,960  16 GB, 256-bit  300 W     $750   
   RTX 5070 Super    GB205-400    6,400  18 GB, 192-bit  275 W   TBD   
   RTX 5070          GB205-300-A1 6,144  12 GB, 192-bit  250 W     $550   
   RTX 5060 Ti       GB205-300    4,608  8/16G, 128-bit  180 W   $380 / $430   
   RTX 5060          GB206-250    3,840   8 GB, 128-bit  145 W   $300   
   RTX 5050          GB207        2,560   8 GB, 128-bit  130 W   $250   
      
   When you look at a "bazaar seller" listing, like BestBuy, you might   
   see this.   
      
      RTX5090     $4000   
      RTX5090     $2000  <=== retail store price on the BestBuy shelf   
      RTX5090     $4000  <=== scalper price, from outside the store   
                              They bought all the cards up, to make them scarce.   
      
   When you click a button for "show me retail items only" the list   
   changes to show just the $2000 item.   
      
      RTX5090     $2000   
      
   One day I was looking through the list, and I was seeing a sea of   
   $4000 items, and I was saying to myself "this can't be right", I   
   checked and I had forgotten to tick the box to cut out the   
   scalpers. If at first the prices don't seem right, make sure   
   you've eliminated the dodgy private sellers from the list.   
      
   I don't consider cards like this, to be an especially great value.   
   If you want real horsepower, the prices have gone through the roof.   
      
   The cards come in different lengths. The "$250 USD" card is   
   $400 in local currency here, it has three fans (which is patently   
   ridiculous). There are also cards with two fans, and they are   
   more likely to fit in the PC. Not all PCs can accept long cards,   
   the cards can bump into your Southbridge heatsink or bump   
   into the SATA right-angle connectors.   
      
   The cards are at a minimum, dual slot. Make sure the metalwork   
   on your case, does not "conflict" with the flat two-slot-wide metal   
   plate on the faceplate. I have one PC case, where a two slot card   
   binds when you try to insert it. If I empty the case and take   
   it into the shop and bash it with a hammer... I can fix that.   
      
   A couple of my power supplies, have multiple 2x4 connectors and that   
   might be sufficient up to 300W. Check the card picture for   
   evidence of the connector type there. If shopping that table   
   there, and not going too high up into the table, my 750W PSU would   
   likely be sufficient. For the top card in the list, I'd have to   
   go shop for a new 1200W supply with the 16 pin connector (2x6+4, the   
   4 pins are status/declaration pins). The bottom card in the list   
   might have a 2x3 or a 2x4 on it, and the PSU that have 2x4   
   connectors, the end part unsnaps to convert the connector into   
   a 2x3. All the supplies in the room, have at least one   
   connector for the bottom card in the list.   
      
   The BestBuy would likely have the 5070 and the 5070 Ti, due to   
   the prices being "mid-range" and that's the range they want   
   to sell into. My real computer store has a wider stock,   
   but their stocking levels are not good. For example, when I   
   wanted an 8TB hard drive for backups, the chain of stores   
   had exactly one of those drives in stock and that was it.   
   While they list a lot of products, some listings aren't   
   all that real.   
      
   You can use the listing here, to compare horsepower on the cards.   
   The amount of VRAM is important, but this benchmark does not   
   take that into account. For games, you want a decent amount,   
   which is why I picked out the 16GB card to cover gaming.   
   The $430 card then, the 16GB one, it's a way to get a 16GB   
   card, with some number of CUDA on it.   
      
     https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html   
      
   The utility here, does not depict all the hardware resources   
   in a card. But this is just to show you what you might see   
   after buying one.   
      
     # Review (not all cards get a review)   
      
     https://www.techpowerup.com/review/msi-geforce-rtx-5060-ti-gam   
   ng-16-gb/44.html   
      
     # Most cards have a spec summary on this site.   
      
     https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-5060-ti-8-gb.c4246   
      
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