From: chris@internal.net   
      
   On 25/10/2025 at 13:06, s|b wrote:   
   > On Fri, 24 Oct 2025 23:03:29 -0400, Paul wrote:   
   >   
   >> If you are changing the security stance of the OS, without   
   >> a thorough understanding of what you are doing, that's   
   >> not helping.   
   >   
   > I understand, but as I said: it's just early days. We have until Oct   
   > 2026 to prepare. Apparently, there's such a thing as Linux Repair Café   
   > with volunteers who do exactly what we want to do. We can cooperate with   
   > them or simply organise info sessions (my supervisor does this already)   
   > to introduce Linux Mint as a W10 (or older) alternative and then refer   
   > our people to them. I could even volunteer in such a café and extend my   
   > knowledge (or lack of) about Linux.   
   >   
   >> For example, you help them in some non-standard way,   
   >> they seek help from someone else, and that someone else   
   >> asks "they did what ?". That leaves the user to doubt   
   >> the help being received at both sites.   
   >   
   > We already have that with people who come by with their smartphone.   
   > Their son/daughter/friend/neighbour/... has given them (wrong) advice   
   > and we solve it.   
   >   
   >> Start by helping within the confines of the problem first.   
   >>   
   >> *******   
   >>   
   >> Let's take Tiny11 as an example. It's an OS "where the bloat was removed".   
   >> Now, the individual who made that, may have had the best intentions.   
   >> Are they "tree herder class", or maybe "just a nerd who has had   
   >> too much caffeine" ? I don't know./   
   >>   
   >> If someone comes to the Windows 11 group and says "I've installed   
   >> Tiny11 and suddenly I can't print". Well, now my position is,   
   >> I'm a helper for Tiny11 not Windows11. Maybe the documentation   
   >> available for Windows11 does not apply to the situation,   
   >> because key packages were removed.   
   >>   
   >> In the end, is Tiny11 a benefit or a hazard ? You've gone from   
   >> thousands of people who could help you with your problem,   
   >> to two guys in a Github Issues thread.   
   >>   
   >> I would recommend staying within the lines painted on the   
   >> street, rather than off-roading.   
   >   
   > I understand, but W10's support will end and their hardware will not   
   > support W11. Buying new hardware isn't an option for most people and   
   > sticking with W10 isn't an option either, not if these people will use   
   > their device for netbanking. In general, Belgian banks consider their   
   > system safe, there's a card reader and an app called Itsme which are   
   > used as a form of 2FA, but in case of a breach a bank could say: 'Well,   
   > you were using an OS that isn't supported anymore. You're responsible,   
   > not us.'   
   >   
   > How can you stay between the lines when W10 as well as W11 isn't an   
   > option? In case of a problem, people would still come to us or a Café. A   
   > lot of these people are 'digibeet' (computer illiterate); they're not   
   > the type to ask help in a Github thread.   
   >   
   >> If you REALLY REALLY want a distro with the root account   
   >> enabled and routinely used, there are distros for you to   
   >> select, where everything is designed with that in mind.   
   >> For example, one distro (Knoppix?),   
   > 8< snip >8   
   >   
   > I used Knoppix a long time ago, but ATM Linux Mint is one of the most   
   > popular (= more people that can help) and the problem could be solved by   
   > making a second user with no root account.   
      
   Actually what you want is a root account, a primary account (user's   
   name) with no sudo access but autologin, and a second (secret?) account   
   with sudo access and no autologin.   
   Note that if you make an account with no sudo access, that account will   
   not be able to use tools like apt to upgrade the system. This may (or   
   may not) be a problem down the line.   
   See visudo (run as root) and /etc/sudoers, /etc/sudoers.d/   
      
      
   I have a cousin in IT who   
   > installed Windows at his parents this way. Their account didn't have   
   > admin rights. The idea is that our organisation (or a Linux Repair Café)   
   > would offer assistance after installation.   
   >   
   >> Each of these things had a guiding philosophy when they   
   >> were done. And it's up to us when guiding people, to   
   >> explain the philosophy and work within the constraints   
   >> that provides.   
   >>   
   >> Summary: When helping people, the idea is to not make a   
   >>           situation worse than it already is. I've watched one   
   >>           person who does IT as a small operation of his own for   
   >>           money. He makes a mess as he goes, but he also puts   
   >>           the hours into customer sites, fixing what he broke   
   >>           so that the customer is not inconvenienced. Most helpers   
   >>           do not have the time for "remoting into customer X   
   >>           computer at midnight and fixing that printer" That's how   
   >>           he works. He wrote his own backup software.   
   >>   
   >>           Good support is a "light touch", not a "redesign of the distro".   
   >>           Just some friendly advice.   
   >   
   > As I said, it's still early days. The public we want to reach is people   
   > with older hardware, not able to afford W10 and who only use their   
   > PC/laptop for browsing, mail, text, spreadsheet, PDF, music, movies, ...   
   >   
   > We have until Oct 2026 to think this over. It's not even decided if   
   > we're actually going to do this. Right now, we're just experimenting and   
   > brain storming.   
   >   
   >>           This is how we shop. A solution for every taste.   
   >>   
   >>           https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b   
   Linux_Distribution_Timeline.svg   
   >   
   > That's a bit overwhelming. If we would choose some obscure distribution,   
   > let's say Tiny11, I would imagine there would be less support than for   
   > instance Linux Mint. That's not good, is it?   
   >   
      
      
      
   --   
   Chris Elvidge, England   
   I WILL NOT BURY THE NEW KID   
   Bart Simpson on chalkboard in episode 9F03   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)