From: laura@nospam.me   
      
   I've just noticed that several of my recent replies have been gobbled up by   
   the silly "line 3 too long" error, and never got sent. Yes, I know I should   
   use another newsreader...   
   Anyway, that is why I've started this new thread - the only way to actually   
   get those messages sent.   
   Here's the first one:   
      
   "personalpages.tds.net/~rcsilk"  wrote in message   
   news:41cf7f0b_3@newspeer2.tds.net...   
   > silk said:   
   > >> TRUE Christianity is peace-loving and forgiving.   
   > >> Christian IDIOTS (like Popes, Presidents, politicians, and other   
   > >> political   
   > >> figures) are warlike and oppressive.   
   > >   
   > Laura? said:   
   > > Indeed, and if the majority of what we had was true christianity, I   
   > > wouldn't   
   > > have a problem with it.   
   >   
   > >> Christianity is not intended to be aggressive, but there is a "destiny"   
   > >> or   
   > >> "great commission" (again, the results of a twit apostle...) to go ye   
   > >> therefore, teaching all nations, or some such broo-ha-ha.  It doesn't   
   say   
   > >> "do this by the sword" -- like the Islamic/Muslim faith teaches.   
      
   The Bible is fully able to compete with the Koran for the "Most violent   
   scripture" award - mainly because of the old testament.   
   The violent passages in the Koran are no more numerous than they are in the   
   Bible.   
      
   >   
   > Um... retraction:  I now believe it was Jesus who actually said that,   
   > although I'm still not 100% certain and I'm NOT taking the time to look it   
   > up at this moment.  Still, it does not say "do this by the sword."  I do   
   > recall Jesus teaching his apostles that if they go into a town and the   
   > people receive them not, to leave quietly and wipe the dust of the town   
   from   
   > off their feet at the border.   
   >   
   > > Nevertheless, it has done so more by the sword than by more peaceful   
   > > means.   
   >   
   > Politicians and power brokers have.  Not the true "religion" (if you will,   
   > the philosophy) itself.   
      
   True, but they invariably exploit religion to make the masses behave like a   
   flock of mindless sheep. They always will. The only way I can see that not   
   happening is if there IS no religion.   
   There is good in religion, but if it could be sacrificed for the ability of   
   the masses to actually think independently, I would gladly see it done.   
      
   >   
   > >> Actually, what we have is the New Testament, and if you get & study a   
   > >> red-letter edition, you'll be surprised at how simple it all is.   
   > >   
   > > I realize how simple it is. The new testament is the foundation of the   
   > > church we have here, and it teaches peace, forgiveness, and love. I   
   don't   
   > > have anything against that, except that it has become somehow stale and   
   > > soulless, but that is another matter.   
   >   
   > I suspect (dare I say:  "predict"? or "prophecy"?) that, just as JC   
   brought   
   > a "Good Word" ("gospel") to the people of the OT, there will be yet   
   another   
   > Gospel -- soon -- to re-awaken the masses.   
      
   As long as it's something other than the hate-rhetoric of the religious   
   right, it can only be a change for the better.   
      
   >   
   > > Yes. As I said, my beef is not so much with the christians who actually   
   > > emulate Jesus, but rather with the more fundamentalist branches of   
   > > christianity - specifically the born-again movement in the U.S.   
   > > Judeo-Christians, I believe they call themselves. They focus a lot on   
   the   
   > > old testament. Without them, the U.S. would have another president now.   
   I   
   > > am   
   > > deeply concerned by their very effective grab for political power. A   
   world   
   > > with a single nuclear superpower is scary enough, but one where that   
   > > superpower is also theocratic would be downright terrifying. We're not   
   > > there   
   > > yet, but care must be taken to not get there.   
   >   
   > Armageddon is, indeed, just around the corner!   
      
   By that, do you mean the actual end of the world in the biblical sense?   
      
   >  The problem is:  so many of   
   > the rights of the religious are being stamped out by the US constitution /   
   > separation of Church & State / that they are fighting (now) to protect   
   their   
   > rights to be Christians in public.   
      
   And winning.   
   I consider the fact that even one institution of learning can be caused to   
   abolish the teaching of evolution a major victory for the fundies.   
   And worse: They own the president.   
      
   >  Unfortunately, those rights were never   
   > actually taken away from them:  merely the right to proclaim or effect one   
   > religion over another, or over non-religion.  I attended a zoning   
   commission   
   > meeting where the members and the public were led in prayer before opening   
   > matters for public discussion, less than a year ago.  (Rutherford County,   
   > Tennessee.)  Those fucking bastards deserve everything the ACLU decides to   
   > throw at them.  They can't even read / interpret their own laws, they've   
   got   
   > their heads so far up their asses -- they're breathing out their necks!   
   >   
   > I know, the above paragraph is not formatted in proper context.  Sorry.  I   
   > just got carried away and I suspect the thoughts flew faster than the   
   > cohesion.   
      
   I know the feeling very well indeed :-D   
      
   >   
   > > I know that the vast majority of christians in the world are not   
   > > extremist,   
   > > just as the majority of muslims are not, but the extremist movements (or   
   > > sects) are growing in strength. I wonder why that is, and whether it   
   will   
   > > reverse itself before causing irreversible harm. The passive majority   
   > > never   
   > > did matter as much as the highly active and vocal minority.   
   >   
   > There will be an uprising:  extremist Sunni Muslims against the other   
   > Muslims and the US Christians.  Heck, it's been going on since before   
   9-11,   
   > it's just that the boil is now visible above the skin.   
      
   The Shia may well turn on the U.S. eventually. Iran is a Shia country, and   
   they coined the phrase "The great satan" about the U.S. Don't think for a   
   second that they no longer think so.   
   Right now, Iraqi Shia muslims rightly see the U.S. forces as a means to get   
   rid of those who have oppressed them, but make no mistake; they still resent   
   the U.S. forces, and consider them an occupation army.   
      
   >   
   > Even though Bush may have lanced the boil, those suckers nearly always   
   come   
   > in twos or threes.  (I think the last time I got one was in high school,   
   > nearly some 30 years or so ago.)   
      
   He has lanced the boil.... with a rusty needle full of germs.   
   Now watch them multiply.   
      
   >   
   > It will take a major thrashing & friction between two or more major powers   
   > against each other before one knife sharpens itself sufficiently to cut   
   the   
   > throat of the other.  And, I fear, the sharper knife may turn out to be a   
   > scimitar.   
   >   
      
   I doubt the muslim world will ever be able to outright destroy the american   
   state, but neither will America ever be successful in eradicating terrorism   
   by use of military force. The only way to end the cycle of terror, I think,   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)