From: david@edenroad.demon.co.uk   
      
   On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 21:12:14 -0600, personalpages.tds.net/~rcsilk wrote:   
      
   > "David Mitchell"  wrote in message   
   > news:pan.2004.12.24.07.28.19.382081@edenroad.demon.co.uk...   
   >> On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 00:35:33 -0600, personalpages.tds.net/~rcsilk wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> "David Mitchell"  wrote in message   
   >>> news:pan.2004.12.23.07.54.36.932286@edenroad.demon.co.uk...   
   >   
   > David, I have come to the conclusion that:   
   > 1) you are intelligent,   
   > 2) well read, and probably   
   > 3) an expert in your field, however:   
   > 4) you lack certain cognitive skills.   
      
   Quite possibly; but not relevant here.   
      
   > However, you seem to have (again) missed the point, and this time I *do*   
   > need to restate this issue because it wasn't well nor clearly stated   
   > previously:   
   > The universe, by all scientific theories that subscribe to the big bang,   
   > originated from a hot plasma-like point.  But *what* existed before that   
   > point, or how it came to be, no one can say.   
      
   Although there are theories.  Look up "ekpyrotic".   
      
   > Thus, its creation had to have come from -- eventually -- nothing.   
      
   Unsupported assertion, see below.   
      
   > Thus,   
   > scientists eventually find their own concept of "God" -- that power which   
   > created the very first something from nothing.   
   >   
   > Now:  if you were to create something from nothing -- you can't -- because   
   > you already exist.   
      
   You can create a "pocket universe", within this one.   
   Within that universe; which can be unbounded but finite, like ours   
   probably is, you can start with anything you want, from chaos to void.   
      
   We have no way to determine that this universe is not a "pocket" universe   
   within a greater one.   
      
   > Thus, God *had* to have been created simultaneously   
   > *with* the Universe, if people are to uphold the statement that God created   
   > the universe from Nothing.   
      
   Which is just an unsupported assertion.   
      
   > Otherwise, it would read:  God created the   
   > universe from Himself.   
   >   
   > Thus, the Universe *must* be self-aware.   
      
   I think you lack certain cognitive skills.   
      
   > Now I KNOW you won't agree with this, you won't understand it, or you'll say   
   > I'm full of shit.  Fine.  be that way if you wish.  I'm merely posting this   
   > here for the benefit of those who *can* understand it.   
      
   I understand it; but I don't agree with your original assertions.   
      
   --   
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   = David    --- If you use Microsoft products, you will, inevitably, get   
   = Mitchell --- viruses, so please don't add me to your address book.   
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    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)