From: laura@nospam.me   
      
   "Janice"  wrote in message   
   news:MPG.1c6c19d764a27bc698a28f@news.individual.net...   
   > In article , laura@nospam.me says...   
   >   
   > >My point was only that once you've had the experience, you no longer need   
   to   
   > >ask if other, i.e. hypnagogic, experiences are OBEs.   
   >   
   > Even that can vary from person to person.  I remember a poster from   
   > several years ago who considered experiences that she induced by   
   > developing hypnagogic imagery into complete scenes to be a type of OBE.   
   > She said that she didn't like all the classifying and just called 'em all   
   > OBEs. :-)  Also, it's possible to have hypnagogic stuff going on while   
   > experiencing the typical sensations of sleep paralysis, or to have OBEs   
   > under conditions other than sleep paralysis.  And of course sometimes   
   > beginners wonder if a certain experience was an OBE or if it was a lucid   
   > dream instead, and depending on who they talk to, they may be told that   
   > if it had been an OBE there would be no doubt of it, or they may be told   
   > that there's no great distinction to make.  It's just very individual,   
   > and what may be seen as highly discrete categories of experience for some   
   > are less discrete for others.   
      
   True enough. It is a question of definition. With a preexisting definition,   
   though, it is easy to tell if it has happened to you or not.   
   I define it something like this: An experience of being awake and leaving   
   your bed (or other location you went to sleep/rest in), moving around and   
   doing whatever, and then returning to the bed, usually quite abruptly   
   without the experience of moving back to it. It is unlike a dream in that   
   the quality of your consciousness in the experience is one of waking, or   
   very near waking, clarity. Also, the experience of the surroundings is   
   fairly realistic - i.e. you don't suddenly find yourself in a completely   
   different place without first experiencing your actual bedroom to some   
   extent.   
      
   I know this definition is not perfect by any means.   
      
   As for how to distinguish between OBEs and lucid dreams, I can't come up   
   with a good method. Perhaps becuase such a distinction is meaningless,   
   except to describe the contents of a certain variety of lucid dream.   
      
   >   
   > >I agree completely that the question of what the OBE really *is*, is not   
   so   
   > >easily answered.   
   >   
   > Yep, I know how you feel about that.  However, the "you'll know it when   
   > you have it" idea comes up here from time to time, usually with the   
   > implications that I was addressing, and I think we owe it to newcomers to   
   > make it clear that there is a spectrum of opinion on the matter.   
   >   
      
   Yes, and everyone tends to post as if their version of it is the true one   
   (myself included, though I try to take into account other views), which is   
   understandable :-)   
      
   > --   
   >   
   > For the alt.out-of-body group website and my other sites, visit:   
   > http://www.hopkinsfan.net   
      
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    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)