XPost: alt.religion.eckankar, alt.meditation.shabda
From: turner.michael@worldnet.att.net
Mr. Martin,
There is a huge difference between a spiritual study group and a cult. A
true spiritual study group (sangat) based upon the relationship between a
genuine awakened soul and his or her students/disciples is one of love,
education and gentle persuasion. A cult is based on the leader using fear
and other negative traits as tools of manipulation to keep students obedient
and in line. Those who preach the message of fear and guilt in order to
ensure their disciples obedience are nothing more than shysters, grifters
and spiritual manipulators of the lowest sort. They are cult leaders
(whether large or small), who are utterly clueless about the real nature of
God and have no business presenting themselves as spiritual teachers.
In peace and truth,
Michael Turner
"lackpurity" wrote in message
news:1115224201.570629.317230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> MICHAEL TURNER wrote:
>> MM wrote:
>>
>> "There is nothing wrong with cultic behaviour."
>>
>> I rest my case.
>>
>> Michael Turner
>
> MM:
> Most Masters have had cults. Their followers have reached the
> destination, or they are well on their way. This has been happening,
> since time immemorial. I'm thinking of the cults of Moses, Jesus, St.
> Paul, St. Peter, etc., etc. More recently, Soami Ji Maharaj, Baba
> Jaimal Singh Maharaj, Kirpal Singh Ji Maharaj, Faqir Chand, and Charan
> Singh Ji Maharaj have had their followers.
>
> The greatest humans the world has ever seen, have had cults and been
> involved with cultic behaviour. Even the West has had them, Goethe,
> Carlyle, Tennyson, the Brownings, Emerson, Whitman, Fuller, Dickinson,
> etc., etc., are shining examples. Some have been more prominent, and
> others have been more obscure.
>
> I rest my case.
>
> Michael Martin
>
>> "lackpurity" wrote in message
>> news:1115121630.083671.248110@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > Michael Turner wrote:
>> >> I think it's also important to note that Mr. Martin also swaggers
>> > about
>> >> (thought Dubya jokes that in Texas they just call that "walking")
>> >> threatening people who disagree with him with the wrath of God for
>> >> dissing "the master".
>> >
>> > MM:
>> > I never threat anyone. Mr. Turner must have misunderstood my
>> > teachings. I warn that offending God could bring a severe
> punishment.
>> > That is true. It is an ancient teaching, and one which my Master,
>> > Maharaj Charan Singh Ji used to repeat. Hell is real. Chaurasi is
>> > real. Swaggering could be, when one thinks he can do anything he
> likes
>> > and avoid Hell and Chaurasi. That is what swaggering could be.
>> >
>> > M. Turner:
>> > He uses this fear circuitry a lot to attempt to
>> >> manipulate and control people, and convince them to follow him, or
>> > else
>> >> . . .
>> >
>> > MM:
>> > No, this is not true. I give my teachings, and they can be
> followed or
>> > rejected. There is no coercion, nor manipulation involved at all.
>> >
>> > M. Turner:
>> >> It's classic cultic behavior, and not very astutely practiced at
> that
>> > -
>> >> and has virtually nothing to do with real spirituality.
>> >
>> > MM:
>> > There is nothing wrong with cultic behaviour. I give my teachings,
>> > whether they are received astutely, or not.
>> >
>> > M. Turner:
>> >> Sorry for venting. It's just that people abusing their power and
>> > using
>> >> fear as a manipulation tool kind of irk me.
>> >
>> > MM:
>> > Giving teachings is not abuse, nor is recommending fear of
> offending
>> > God a manipulation tool.
>> >
>> >> Have a great night!
>> >>
>> >> Michael Turner
>> >
>> > Michael Martin
>> >>
>> >> lackpurity@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >> > Laura wrote:
>> >> > > Indeed :-)
>> >> > > But I spent quite a lot of time on this particular one, futile
>> >> though
>> >> > > it was. I can only hope that my posts there will serve as a
>> >> deterrent
>> >> > > to any innocent bystanders that this zealot is not to be
> followed
>> >> :-)
>> >> > > It's the "Michael Martin" who posted here a while back in
> reply
>> > to
>> >> > one
>> >> > > of those eckankar posts we get with regular intervals. I
> smelled
>> > a
>> >> > huge
>> >> > > rat right away, and he was careless enough to post a list of
> his
>> >> > > google-groups, so off I went.
>> >> >
>> >> > MM:
>> >> > I guess you think you're a Guru, then? You're like the pot
> calling
>> >> the
>> >> > kettle black. I'll leave it to the sagacity of the readers, how
>> > much
>> >> > faith to put in your NOSE, or SENSE OF SMELL. LOL ROTFL
>> >> >
>> >> > Laura:
>> >> > First just to see what he was really
>> >> > > about, and then to destroy his credibility to the best of my
>> >> ability
>> >> > > (not that I'd consider it any good to begin with).
>> >> >
>> >> > MM:
>> >> > Oh, I get it, I think. Your NOSE tells you whether to destroy
>> >> > someone's credibility, or not. Why do you rely on your NOSE,
>> > rather
>> >> > than your intellect? That's the question in my mind.
>> >> >
>> >> > Laura:
>> >> > > To sum up the kind of zealot he is: He believes himself to be
> one
>> >> of
>> >> > > two currently living Radhasoami masters, and lives in
>> > Nacogdoches,
>> >> > TX.
>> >> > > A radhasoami master isn't just any old guru. Oh no, they are
>> >> > equivalent
>> >> > > to God himself - omniscient and omnipotent. He is, of course,
> not
>> >> > > recognized as such by the actual Radhasoami sect, but that
>> > doesn't
>> >> > seem
>> >> > > to bother him.
>> >> >
>> >> > MM:
>> >> > The main thing is that God recognizes someone. If the grace of
> God
>> >> is
>> >> > manifested in an individual, notwithstanding someone's nose, I'd
>> > say
>> >> to
>> >> > follow him/her.
>> >> >
>> >> > Laura:
>> >> > His business on the internet is to "collect sheep",
>> >> > > which he does mostly by regurgitating the same small handful
> of
>> >> > > not-very-wise-sounding phrases,
>> >> >
>> >> > MM:
>> >> > Some have made not-very-wise-decisions, such as choosing
> Barabbas
>> >> over
>> >> > Christ. Opinions are not always right. Sometimes, they are
>> >> pitifully
>> >> > wrong. Saints have been tortured and killed, since time
>> > immemorial.
>> >> >
>> >> > Laura:
>> >> > most of which are either lifted
>> >> > > directly from, or are an adaptation of, the Bible (oddly
> enough).
>> >> >
>> >> > MM:
>> >> > Why is that odd, in your opinion?
>> >> >
>> >> > Laura:
>> >> > > He has also taken it upon himself to proclaim several notable
>> >> figures
>> >> > > in European and American culture to be masters (Sant Mat
> Gurus),
>> > as
>> >> > he
>> >> > > claims to be. These include Walt Whitman, Emily Dickinson,
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