XPost: alt.religion.eckankar, alt.meditation.shabda   
   From: turner.michael@worldnet.att.net   
      
   Hi Kent,   
      
   Sorry about the delay in responding.  My dad was visiting for the weekend so   
   I was focused on family stuff (that and seeing Star Wars III last night -   
   remember the 1977 or 78 Eck Mata Journal with the cover that said "The Force   
   Is Eck"?).   
      
   You ask really good questions, ones with a lot of merit. And I can relate to   
   the underlying quandry as well.   
      
   Let's see.  Do I consider myself God-realized?  Am I a "Master"?   
      
   Through the grace of my teachers and the LightSong of Naam, I have been   
   blessed with directly experiencing Anami Desh.  I have been to the Ocean of   
   Love and Mercy on numerous occasions.  I know how to get there, and I can   
   help others get there too.  As far as what that makes me, I really haven't   
   the foggiest.  I'm not really into labels - I think they're unnecessarily   
   binding and tend to reduce one to a charicature.  At the very least, they   
   tend to straightjacket one into trying to fill the mold created by others   
   and try to live up to.   
      
   You see, there's a funny little thing about Naam.  It is most fluid.  Always   
   flowing out from the heart of God and back to it, Naam always  - by It's   
   very nature - seeks the path of least resistance.  Any attempt to constrain   
   it through ideology, rhetoric, dogma, cultural tradition or organizational   
   structure inevitably results in It flowing elsewhere, like a river that has   
   been damned. It cannot be directed. It cannot be controlled.  Those who wish   
   to serve It and become loving instruments for Its expression need to   
   remember one basic, fundamental thing.  Get out of the way.  This is what I   
   tell myself every day.  I am nothing except an instrument for Naam to play   
   in whatever way It sees fit.  My only job is to be as in tune with It as I   
   can be while in the human form living a human life so It can express ItSelf   
   in Its own fashion.  It is the master, not me.   
      
   Just to address a few other questions.  One, I quit smoking (decided it was   
   time to give my lungs a rest and take better care of this instrument).  Two,   
   the only things I have ever charged for are books, tapes, newsletters and   
   seminars - always a nominal fee to allow me to cover expenses.  Any   
   spiritual instruction I give is for free.  I like it better that way.   
      
   Anyhow, it's about time to get my little boy ready for daycare and myself   
   ready for work.   
      
   Have a fantastic day, and week!   
      
   Michael Turner   
      
   "leaf"  wrote in message   
   news:1116563393.620728.289750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...   
   > MICHAEL TURNER wrote:   
   >> Hey Kent, how're you doing?  Man it's been a long time!   
   >>   
   >> I remember editing the Tucson newsletter like it was yesterday -   
   > scrambling   
   >> to learn Pagemaker, and then deciding to try something new and start   
   > a   
   >> written discussion group, no holds barred, any subject open for   
   >> consideration.  And then being astounded to find my HI reviewer   
   > telling me   
   >> certain subjects (e.g., Sri Darwin Gross' tenure as the Mahanta, the   
   > Living   
   >> Eck Master) were off limits and me (being disinclined to self-censor,   
   > and to   
   >> paraphrase Woody Allen) suggesting that reviewer do something that   
   > was   
   >> anatomically impossible.  As I recall, I went through two or three HI   
   >   
   >> reviewers over the course of a couple months.  But I don't recall   
   > hearing   
   >> about the calls to Minneapolis until now.  Too funny.   
   >>   
   >> Actually, it was my challenging tenure as the newsletter editor which   
   >   
   >> eventually led to my starting the Sonic Spectrum - and later   
   >> alt.meditation.shabda - with the goal of providing a forum for   
   > students of   
   >> *all* Light and Sound paths and gurus (both east and west) to meet   
   > and   
   >> discuss the teachings in an open, free-thinking, ecumenical   
   > environment.  To   
   >> me it doesn't matter who you study with, so long as you are attracted   
   > to the   
   >> LightSong of Eternal Love that is Naam/Eck/Shabda/Holy Spirit.   
   >>   
   >> So anyhow, Kent, what's been happening with you?  Are you still in   
   > Arizona?   
   >> I'm up in Phoenix these days, doing my best to be a good single   
   > father and   
   >> raise my son (he'll be four in June).  I've gotta say, parenthood -   
   >> especially single parenthood - is the heaviest spiritual discipline   
   > around,   
   >> and has taught me as muc about God, love and true devotion than all   
   > my years   
   >> meditating (you might say parenthood is the "co-worker" part of jivan   
   > mukti,   
   >> putting one's spiritual awakening into living practice).   
   >>   
   >> Please feel free to drop me a line anytime: Michael112656@yahoo.ca or   
   >   
   >> turner.michael@worldnet.att.net   
   >>   
   >> Have a great day!!   
   >>   
   >   
   > Michael, I visited alt.meditation.shabda and from what I read, it does   
   > appear you consider yourself to be God-Realized. Is this the case? How   
   > did you go from a tobacco smoking rock and rolling intellectual to a   
   > mystic master in such a short period? Not to be too judgemental, but I   
   > remember you well, and it is fascinating to me, actually. How does this   
   > hapen? You were extremely inquisitive, and you did use your mind well.   
   > But the supreme mastership? Forgive me if I'm just too entrenched in   
   > the persona I once knew you to be, but it seems to me there are far too   
   > many masters in the kitchen. You know the old adage, when too many   
   > cooks stir the pot, it ruins the soup!  Well, at least you welcome all   
   > to your table...I suppose maybe there is a method to your madness. I'll   
   > hold off, and see. But I don't know if I like the trend...unless we can   
   > all proclaim to be masters....and all teach each other. But there are   
   > too many claimants to the throne, as I see it. Perhaps we should have a   
   > "master boycot". Or perhaps a "followers union" in which the rights of   
   > "followers" are addressed. Followers defined as that minority still not   
   > claiming to be masters. (kidding, of course...) Please don't tell me   
   > people pay you money...   
   >   
   > Kent   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >> Michael Turner   
   >>   
   >> "leaf"  wrote in message   
   >> news:1116425287.171869.222740@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...   
   >> > Michael Turner wrote:   
   >> >> Hi Gondo,   
   >> >>   
   >> >> Thank you for your patience.  With questions like this I like to   
   > take   
   >> >> some time to reflect on them before writing back.   
   >> >>   
   >> >> What I was trying to say - in a sentence or two - was that you   
   > don't   
   >> >> need to be a per se initiate of a currently living Sant Mat Master   
   > in   
   >> >> order to be lifted up by Naam and taken home to God.  A devout   
   >> >> Christian who has been baptized in the Holy Spirit (Naam) and is   
   > pure   
   >> >> in heart and sincere in their devotion to Christ and the Lord can   
   > be   
   >> >> lifted up and guided by Christ back home as well.  In other words,   
   >> >> Presbyterians, Catholics, Methodists, Lutherans, Episcopalians,   
   > etc.   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)