XPost: alt.religion.eckankar, alt.meditation.shabda   
   From: JerryC@adelphia.net   
      
   I haven't read your posts on the A.M.S board, but I hear ya and am in   
   agreement with what you say. Paul was reported to have said that Lai Tsi was   
   reported to have said the upon exiting his cave after many months of   
   contemplation, a seeker asked Lai Tsi if he was the master. Lai Tsi said   
   what do you see when you look into my eyes. The seeker looked and said I see   
   the perfect master.   
      
   If we are in harmony with this expression then the master is seen through us   
   as vehicles. I find that the master current boggles the mind, and in this   
   boggling, does occur the fail safe control that it has over us.  Like the   
   guitarist plays the guitar, so it is that the master current plays us. Woven   
   into the fabric of the universe is the joy that we can be conscious   
   co-workers with this expression. And that this expression is in fact exactly   
   what we are trying our darndest to express.  The paradox is that as soon as   
   we stop trying, then it takes over and uses us to express itself. Its like   
   the best way to be ourselves is to simply stop trying to be anything else.   
      
   JerryC   
      
      
   "MICHAEL TURNER"  wrote in message   
   news:XTpke.816421$w62.616174@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...   
   > Hi Kent,   
   >   
   > Sorry about the delay in responding.  My dad was visiting for the weekend   
   > so I was focused on family stuff (that and seeing Star Wars III last   
   > night - remember the 1977 or 78 Eck Mata Journal with the cover that said   
   > "The Force Is Eck"?).   
   >   
   > You ask really good questions, ones with a lot of merit. And I can relate   
   > to the underlying quandry as well.   
   >   
   > Let's see.  Do I consider myself God-realized?  Am I a "Master"?   
   >   
   > Through the grace of my teachers and the LightSong of Naam, I have been   
   > blessed with directly experiencing Anami Desh.  I have been to the Ocean   
   > of Love and Mercy on numerous occasions.  I know how to get there, and I   
   > can help others get there too.  As far as what that makes me, I really   
   > haven't the foggiest.  I'm not really into labels - I think they're   
   > unnecessarily binding and tend to reduce one to a charicature.  At the   
   > very least, they tend to straightjacket one into trying to fill the mold   
   > created by others and try to live up to.   
   >   
   > You see, there's a funny little thing about Naam.  It is most fluid.   
   > Always flowing out from the heart of God and back to it, Naam always  - by   
   > It's very nature - seeks the path of least resistance.  Any attempt to   
   > constrain it through ideology, rhetoric, dogma, cultural tradition or   
   > organizational structure inevitably results in It flowing elsewhere, like   
   > a river that has been damned. It cannot be directed. It cannot be   
   > controlled.  Those who wish to serve It and become loving instruments for   
   > Its expression need to remember one basic, fundamental thing.  Get out of   
   > the way.  This is what I tell myself every day.  I am nothing except an   
   > instrument for Naam to play in whatever way It sees fit.  My only job is   
   > to be as in tune with It as I can be while in the human form living a   
   > human life so It can express ItSelf in Its own fashion.  It is the master,   
   > not me.   
   >   
   > Just to address a few other questions.  One, I quit smoking (decided it   
   > was time to give my lungs a rest and take better care of this instrument).   
   > Two, the only things I have ever charged for are books, tapes, newsletters   
   > and seminars - always a nominal fee to allow me to cover expenses.  Any   
   > spiritual instruction I give is for free.  I like it better that way.   
   >   
   > Anyhow, it's about time to get my little boy ready for daycare and myself   
   > ready for work.   
   >   
   > Have a fantastic day, and week!   
   >   
   > Michael Turner   
   >   
   > "leaf"  wrote in message   
   > news:1116563393.620728.289750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...   
   >> MICHAEL TURNER wrote:   
   >>> Hey Kent, how're you doing?  Man it's been a long time!   
   >>>   
   >>> I remember editing the Tucson newsletter like it was yesterday -   
   >> scrambling   
   >>> to learn Pagemaker, and then deciding to try something new and start   
   >> a   
   >>> written discussion group, no holds barred, any subject open for   
   >>> consideration.  And then being astounded to find my HI reviewer   
   >> telling me   
   >>> certain subjects (e.g., Sri Darwin Gross' tenure as the Mahanta, the   
   >> Living   
   >>> Eck Master) were off limits and me (being disinclined to self-censor,   
   >> and to   
   >>> paraphrase Woody Allen) suggesting that reviewer do something that   
   >> was   
   >>> anatomically impossible.  As I recall, I went through two or three HI   
   >>   
   >>> reviewers over the course of a couple months.  But I don't recall   
   >> hearing   
   >>> about the calls to Minneapolis until now.  Too funny.   
   >>>   
   >>> Actually, it was my challenging tenure as the newsletter editor which   
   >>   
   >>> eventually led to my starting the Sonic Spectrum - and later   
   >>> alt.meditation.shabda - with the goal of providing a forum for   
   >> students of   
   >>> *all* Light and Sound paths and gurus (both east and west) to meet   
   >> and   
   >>> discuss the teachings in an open, free-thinking, ecumenical   
   >> environment.  To   
   >>> me it doesn't matter who you study with, so long as you are attracted   
   >> to the   
   >>> LightSong of Eternal Love that is Naam/Eck/Shabda/Holy Spirit.   
   >>>   
   >>> So anyhow, Kent, what's been happening with you?  Are you still in   
   >> Arizona?   
   >>> I'm up in Phoenix these days, doing my best to be a good single   
   >> father and   
   >>> raise my son (he'll be four in June).  I've gotta say, parenthood -   
   >>> especially single parenthood - is the heaviest spiritual discipline   
   >> around,   
   >>> and has taught me as muc about God, love and true devotion than all   
   >> my years   
   >>> meditating (you might say parenthood is the "co-worker" part of jivan   
   >> mukti,   
   >>> putting one's spiritual awakening into living practice).   
   >>>   
   >>> Please feel free to drop me a line anytime: Michael112656@yahoo.ca or   
   >>   
   >>> turner.michael@worldnet.att.net   
   >>>   
   >>> Have a great day!!   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> Michael, I visited alt.meditation.shabda and from what I read, it does   
   >> appear you consider yourself to be God-Realized. Is this the case? How   
   >> did you go from a tobacco smoking rock and rolling intellectual to a   
   >> mystic master in such a short period? Not to be too judgemental, but I   
   >> remember you well, and it is fascinating to me, actually. How does this   
   >> hapen? You were extremely inquisitive, and you did use your mind well.   
   >> But the supreme mastership? Forgive me if I'm just too entrenched in   
      
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