From: david@edenroad.demon.co.uk   
      
   On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 22:30:01 +0000, Your Name Here=Harvey wrote:   
      
   > Logic - why land on the white house lawn, on a monument to a corrupted   
   > government who only makes the world troublespots worse than what they are.   
   > This world is 'mad' - turn on the news, read the media, etc.   
   > All western civilisation has done is to corrupt the native peoples and   
   > decimate them in one way or another, disrupting their society entirely.   
   > So why should any advanced alien civilisation wish contact with us?   
   > We have little to offer them, except madness and corruptness.   
      
   I know it's impossible to second guess the motives of another species; but   
   that doesn't make sense on any level.   
   Either they're making contact, or they aren't.  Either they write "Hello   
   World" on the moon in 8 mile high letters, or they keep their little grey   
   heads down.   
   They don't abduct people and stuck probes in their butts (what, can't they   
   get porn on their planet or something?), and they don't find isolated   
   individuals with personality issues and credibility problems and pretend   
   to reveal the secrets of the universe to them.   
      
   >   
   > Trillions of miles of space? Means nothing to ETs who have the capability   
   > to traverse that amount of space.   
      
   You're forgetting the fact that space is 3-D.   
   "Trillions of miles" of distance, is trillions of trillions of trillions   
   of cubic miles, in which to find one small blue planet.   
      
   > You're thinking the mind of a limited   
   > human, who believes that the speed of light limits space travel, that   
   > UFOs cannot possibly exist because that space travel cannot be faster   
   > than the speed of light, etc.   
      
   You're thinking with the mind of someone who knows nothing about physics.   
   As far as we know, FTL travel is impossible - it violates relativity; and   
   while I'm happy to admit that GR could be incomplete, I'd want much better   
   evidence than "FTL travel must be possible because sometimes I can't   
   identify things I see in the sky".   
      
   > And that 'earth' is rare, as far inhabitable planets goes, etc. That humans   
   > are rare.   
      
   We know, roughly, what proportion of stars can have planets like ours,   
   comparatively speaking, they _are_ rare, and shortlived.   
      
   > Hmmm random nutter?   
   > Exactly the sort of comments expected, when someone who genuinely presents   
   > a UFO story to the public, gets labelled with.   
   > You don't bother to read all the material available about Billy Meier -   
   > there are negative criticisms, and positive ones. You seem to biased heavily   
   > to the negative views without acknowledging the other side.   
      
   Positive criticism?   
   Not sure what you mean by that; but I have looked at the material Meier   
   publishes as being records of his communication with his space buddies,   
   and it's nonsense.   
   As are his "prophecies".   
      
   > I am aware of both sides, but not with all the details of the negative   
   > criticisms - the ones you've mentioned are not valid,   
      
   So, we've got: obvious fakes, use of models, use of camera trickery,   
   presenting sears catalogue photo's as real, presenting a painting of an   
   earthquake as a real event.   
      
   And none of these are valid?   
   What does he have to do, actually fake up a photo in front of you?   
      
   > nor have I heard/read of them being valid.   
      
   I doubt very much whether you've tried.   
   You claim to want to use logic, go ahead.   
   If the above claims are real, then Meier is a fraud.   
   If you want to know whether he's a fraud, investigate those claims.   
      
   If you won't, why not?   
      
   > Your claims don't fit the evidence.   
      
   You haven't checked, by your own admission.   
      
   > I know that Billy Meier's wife was disgruntled and disappointed with him,   
   > and she was certainly fed up with all the publicity etc. So in leaving him,   
   > she may have said some things she regrets saying now?   
      
   Pathetic.   
      
   > Billy Meier says many, many, many things which sounds like science fiction   
      
      
      
   > us evolve by our own impetus and thinking.   
      
   >>What does logic tell you now?   
   >   
   > Logic tells me you are not impartial nor willing to look at both sides   
   > fairly and intelligently, that you do not know about the technical   
   information   
   > and details regarding faking photographs, especially of the early 80s'.   
      
   Oddly enough, that's when I got my photography O-level a year early (a   
   minor qualification in the UK school system).   
      
   > Taking photographs of models suspended by string (or fishing line, etc) or on   
   > a stick, would plainly be obvious.   
      
   It is, if you want to see it.   
      
   > I do not have a copy of, nor seen the   
   > coffee table book of Meier's UFO photographs. No publisher would publish a   
   > book of the type of photographs you describe - but of remarkable and   
   > outstanding photographs for the world to see. Also note - one of Meier's   
   > UFO photographs went through a stringent process of enlargement for a poster,   
   > and revealed detail of the UFO.   
      
   It's a model!!  It has tiny details all over it (you didn't see the first   
   version, where it turned out that they were from the planet Pyrex ;-)   
      
   > There is such a thing as integrity - which you seem to lack.   
      
   At least I know what it means.   
      
   > Heard of Klass? Who pooh poohs the validity of UFOs. I guess you believe him   
   > 100%?   
      
   Nope, never heard of him.   
      
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