XPost: alt.dreams.lucid, alt.dreams, alt.magick
From: archangel@devnull.com
"Tom" wrote in message
news:2ZadnaWYSpNaG2Xe4p2dnA@comcast.com...
>
> "104" wrote in message
> news:DpNJf.31800$Dn4.5311@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>> Tom wrote:
>>>
>>> The OOB experience is a real experience, but it happens within the
>>> internal model of the world we carry in our heads rather than in the
>>> world upon which our model is largely based.
>>
>> And how did you determine this to be correct?
>
> By paying attention to the discrepancies between physical world events and
> the events of an OOB. They are not completely congruent. What, then, can
> account for the differences? In my estimation, the best theory for that
> is the theory that OOB's are not actually travel in the physical world,
> but in the world of one's mental model of the physical world. I can find
> no substantial evidence whatsoever that contradicts that theory. Can you
> offer me some?
>
>> It's pretty easy to lose track of that, though,
>>> if you aren't particularly interested in attending to the differences.
>>
>> Robert Bruce calls those differences "reality fluctuations". In his view
>> when someone is OOBE they are in fact wandering our reality (he actually
>> calls it the "Real Time Zone") but are invisible similar to ghosts. If
>> people having OOBE's are only exploring some inner reality then how does
>> one explain those people who have been able to describe what people
>> around them were doing and saying, for instance?
>
> I don't think Bruce has presented much in the way of replicable evidence
> for this sort of anecdote. Has he?
>
> Throughout his explanation of astral travel, Bruce again and again says
> that what is being travelled though is "mind stuff". Even in OOB's he
> says it is not physical travel but something that seems so close to it as
> to appear indistinguishable.
>
> From his "Treatise on Astral Projection":
>
> "The astral is the closest dimension to the physical. It overlays and
> permeates the world like a huge mind net, catching and holding all
> thought. Its contents are created by the collective consciousness of the
> world mind. It contains all the thoughts, memories, fantasies, and dreams
> of every living thing in the world."
>
> Jung's "collective unconscious", somewhat reworked.
> "The astral dimension is composed of astral matter and is aptly described
> as mind stuff. It is extremely sensitive to thought and can be moulded
> into any shape or form. These creations can be so perfect as to be
> indistinguishable from reality."
>
> Here he agrees with me. The events and locations experienced in astral
> projection are created by the traveller from the contents of his or her
> own mind.
>
> "Technically, when you project into the physical world in real time as in
> an OOBE, it is really into the boundary area of the buffer zone, between
> the physical and astral dimensions. If the astral body contains enough
> etheric matter it can exist only slightly out of phase from reality. This
> means the projection is in real time and so close to the physical
> dimension as to be indistinguishable from it."
>
> Here also he agrees with me. OOB travel is not actually travel in the
> physical world, but in a very close analog to it. I choose to call this
> analog a "mental model". He chooses to call it some sort of "dimension".
> However, we both agree that OOB's are not physical phenomena but something
> that seems very much like it, in our subjective experience.
You are such a fake it is breathtaking. Jung agrees with you? Jung never
heard of you son. You are a liar and a fraud.
A
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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