From: david@edenroad.demon.co.uk   
      
   On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 13:52:53 -0700, clave_scri...@spl.at wrote:   
      
   >   
   > David Mitchell wrote:   
   >> On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:45:31 -0700, obe1990 wrote:   
   >>   
   >> IMO, the _only_ way to distinguish OBE's from other dream-like states is   
   >> to determine whether information can be gathered "paranormally" during   
   >> them (or "paranormal" action performed).   
   >>   
   >> Note that this isn't complete proof either way, but it at least provides   
   >> an indication, IMO.   
   >>   
   > can you give an example of what you mean here?   
      
   The things which is supposed to distinguish OBE's from dreams is that   
   OBE's are supposed to be "real".  IOW, what you perceive OB is supposed to   
   correspond to some level of reality.   
      
   (I say "some level" rather than just "reality" because OB perceptions are   
   frequently at odds with objective reality, and one of the explanations   
   given for this by the OBE community is that there are different "levels"   
   of reality and OBE's can occur in different ones.  Yes, it's a poor and   
   implausible excuse; but it's all they've got)   
      
   Anyway, this being the case, one would expect that OBE's occuring in   
   "this" level of reality would allow perception of this reality.  IOW,   
   information about the environment can be gathered "paranormally" (since an   
   OB is, by definition, paranormal)   
      
   This is not, in itself, proof that OBE's are "real", unless there is no   
   other way in which paranormal information can be obtained by non-OB   
   methods.  This has not been established.   
      
   FWIW, I don't know of any serious studies which have shown the ability to   
   gather knowledge "paranormally" during OB; which rather tends to indicate   
   that they are not occuring in objective reality, the simplest explanation   
   is therefore that they are some form of hallucination.   
      
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