89f3b7b6   
   XPost: alt.atheism, alt.religion.christianity, alt.bible   
   From: david@edenroad.demon.clo.uk   
      
   On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 07:27:43 -0800, Andres64 wrote:   
      
   > On Nov 10, 6:53 am, David Mitchell  wrote:   
   >> On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 00:10:33 -0800, Iain wrote:   
   >> > On Nov 8, 12:32 am, Andres64  wrote:   
   >> >> On Nov 7, 5:35 pm, Iain  wrote:   
   >>   
   >> >> > On Nov 7, 7:18 pm, Andres64  wrote:   
   >>   
   >> >> > > > Why? Are you denying the experience itself exists?   
   >>   
   >> >> > > Yes.   
   >>   
   >> >> > This isn't an issue. I've had the experience. It's a brute fact.   
   >>   
   >> >> No.  It's your claim which is unsubstantiated.   
   >   
   >> I can fully understand that you might not accept their interpretation   
   >> of their experience, as I, generally, do not; but that many people have   
   >> had an experience which, to them, could be described as seeming to be   
   >> outside of their physical body, is not really in doubt.   
   >   
   > I'm not disputing that they had some experience; just that they had a   
   > *real* OBE.   
      
   Ah, I see.  My mistake, I clearly came into this thread too late (my ISP   
   has been having Newsgroup problems).   
      
   From the above, it looked like you were denying that the experience   
   existed at all; which I'd dispute 'cos I've had one or two.   
      
   FWIW I don't believe they're anything paranormal either - I've been   
   "resident sceptic" in this NG for years, (to the disgust of many :-), and   
   I've been asking anyone who claims to have had a "real" one to test   
   themselves to see whether it's objectively real or not.   
      
   So far, not one has been willing to subject themselves to even that tiny   
   level of scrutiny; which rather suggests, to me, that deep down they know   
   it's not real; but they'd rather pretend to themselves that it is.   
      
   As to the mechanism, there's some evidence that it's associated with   
   Temporal Lobe Hallucinations - in particular see the work of Michael   
   Persinger.   
      
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