XPost: sci.skeptic, alt.atheism, alt.conspiracy
XPost: alt.religion.christian
From: none@none.non
On Sep 22, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote
(Message-ID:):
> On Mon, 22 Sep 2025 12:46:08 -0700, None wrote:
>
> > On Sep 22, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote
> > (Message-ID:):
> >
> > > On Mon, 22 Sep 2025 09:47:38 -0700, None wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Sep 22, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote
> > > > (Message-ID:<51k2dkp25k552cd68ir6p4luk488q1qia2@4ax.com>):
> > > >
> > > > > On Mon, 22 Sep 2025 03:12:45 -0700, "Andrew"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > "JTEM" wrote in message news:10apq31$1vqea$1@dont-email.me...
> > > > > > > Andrew wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yes, but the Jews vehemently petitioned Pilate, specifically
for Him
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > be crucified.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't believe it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It seems that the Romans, who invented the story, cast the hated
> > > > > > > Jews as the bad guys.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But they were Jews themselves who wrote what happened..
> > > > >
> > > > > Judaism was the main competition for the early Christian church, so
> > > > > they tried to make "the Jews" look as bad as possible when they made
> > > > > up their stories about Jesus.
> > > >
> > > > In whose mind? Yours?
> > > >
> > > > The believers in Jesus as the Messiah were all Jews in the beginning.
> > >
> > > But then they branched off, theologically, leaving an emotional rift
> > > between Jews and Messianic Jews. Refusal to follow Jesus as the
> > > Messiah did not leave first-century Jews in Christians' good graces.
> >
> > Theology is not of God, but of mans understandings. It is a false
> > understanding because it stems from the mind of men who speculate on who
God
> > is, and it is NOT definitive. Never depend on it as having full wisdom and
> > knowledge. It is often misleading and serves to confuse, and for that
reason
> > many denominations err and there is separation and not a common bond.
>
> To say "Christ is risen" is a theological statement in addition to
> being an attempt at history.
To whose way of thinking as there were over 500 witnesses of it. Plus to
think that someone was trying to create history is foolish, for such attempts
have been tried similar to that, but were always disproven, and or been
discredited soon afterwards.
>
>
> > > So they vilified the non-Messianic Jews (referred to as simply "the
> > > Jews"), blaming them for Jesus' death and attacking Jewish sects like
> > > the Pharisees as they wrote the Gospels.
> >
> > That, my friend, is misleading and without understanding. They were to be
> > blamed for the Death of Christ, and they knew it at the time.
>
> Even the Jews who had nothing to do with Jesus' crucifixion (e.g.,
> children)?
All the ones in that crowd that proclaimed it were accepting the
responsibility and with such emphasis that they were fully willing to hold
their children and their children’s children as culpable as well. They did
so knowing full well the severity of doing such a thing before God and Man,
and people in that culture did not take such things likely as they considered
themselves bound by their words.
>
>
> > Mat 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, butthat rather a
> > tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude,
> > saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
>
> Baloney.
The story is well known, as is the story of what his wife saw In a dream and
relayed to him at the trial.
>
>
> > Mat 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His bloodbe on us, and on
> > our children.
>
> Which is exactly what the early Christian church *wanted* them to have
> said, so they could more easily differentiate themselves from their
> Jewish beginnings and neighbors.
The early church were jewish believers in Christ, and their relatives who did
not believe in Jesus they for certain did not want them to be alienated. You
are just blowing smoke, speaking things without thinking and with a knee jerk
reaction. The church you were mosr familiar with was no more related to Jesus
than the JW. And to take those ideas and place that understanding on other is
a great error.
>
>
> > > > The priests were the ones who stirred up the population against Jesus.
Not
> > > > all, as there were some who were followers of Jesus secretly. The High
Priest
> > > > of Israel at the time of the birth of Jesus believed that the Messiah
was
> > > > coming, were looking for him, and even recognized Jesus as the Messiah
> > > > when
> > > > he was presented to them soon after his birth, and they rejoiced. John
the
> > > > Baptist Was a cousin of his, who grew up not knowing Jesus personally.
> > >
> > > No, crucifixion is a quintessentially Roman mode of execution. It
> > > wasn't the Jews who stirred up the population against Jesus, but the
> > > Roman authorities. Jesus' claim to be the Messiah was politically
> > > dangerous enough for the Romans to look into the situation, found that
> > > he was indeed guilty of sedition, and executed him for that reason.
> >
> > Mat 27:1 When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the
> > people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death:
> >
> > Mat 27:2 And when they had bound him, they led him away, and delivered him
> > to Pontius Pilate the governor.
> >
> > If you were to go to the source, like here and the scriptures surrounding
> > it, you would see a far different picture.
>
> An interesting quote. However, it carries no weight for those who
> don't accept the Bible as being inspired.
Of course not. Especially when you are afraid to read and understand what the
Word of God really says so that you can discuss things intelligently even if
you chose not to follow it. Ghandi was such a person. Agrippa in the days of
Paul was like that as well.
Act 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a
Christian.
Act 26:29 And Paul said, I would to God, that not only thou, but also all
that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except
these bonds.
>
>
> > Scripture also speaks from the perspective of the Romans who found no fault
> > in him. No sedition, nothing. Also verified from Roman history which many
> > try to discredit so as to destroy the truth for an anti-Jesus narrative.
>
> The Romans knew what a Messiah was supposed to do. They decided to
> nip it in the bud before things got worse.
Nope. Although there was one local ruler In Judea that was of that mindset,
[continued in next message]
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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