[continued from previous message]   
      
   > > before Jesus. They accept spirituality and practice that a lot as well,   
   even   
   > > though it is evil. See the rabbit holes in the thinking of the mind of men?   
   > > Given your reasoning a person could justify adultery by telling you that as   
   > > they were doing it, they were thinking of you and thus justify it.   
   >   
   > If Hinduism is a false religion, there must've been a point in time   
   > when its founders were trying to create history, but according to you   
   > they would've been disproven and discredited, leading to the collapse   
   > of their religion -- but they're still here. How do you explain that?   
      
   That is pure foolishness, and you have no historical basis of thought for   
   that.   
   >   
   >   
   > > > > > > > > > So they vilified the non-Messianic Jews (referred to as   
   simply "the   
   > > > > > > > > > Jews"), blaming them for Jesus' death and attacking Jewish   
   sects like   
   > > > > > > > > > the Pharisees as they wrote the Gospels.   
   > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > That, my friend, is misleading and without understanding. They   
   were to   
   > > > > > > > > be   
   > > > > > > > > blamed for the Death of Christ, and they knew it at the time.   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > Even the Jews who had nothing to do with Jesus' crucifixion   
   (e.g.,   
   > > > > > > > children)?   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > All the ones in that crowd that proclaimed it were accepting the   
   > > > > > > responsibility and with such emphasis that they were fully willing   
   to   
   > > > > > > hold   
   > > > > > > their children and their children’s children as culpable as   
   well. They   
   > > > > > > did   
   > > > > > > so knowing full well the severity of doing such a thing before God   
   and   
   > > > > > > Man,   
   > > > > > > and people in that culture did not take such things likely as they   
   > > > > > > considered themselves bound by their words.   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > Was it the children's fault that they were supposedly indoctrinated   
   > > > > > that way?   
   > > > >   
   > > > > Is it your fault that your were born into a sin nature because of Adam   
   > > > > Fall?   
   > > > > And are you powerless to seek and receive deliverance from that   
   condition?   
   > > >   
   > > > No, it's not my fault. So why should I suffer for what Adam and Eve   
   > > > supposedly did?   
   > >   
   > > You are their offspring you inherited their existence. They subjected the   
   > > world to the power of Lucifer, making him the god of this world into which   
   > > you were born.   
   >   
   > If I was born into such a world, it's not my fault if that birth leads   
   > to trouble, is it?   
      
   Blame it on your parents if it be such a curse to you. However, you are   
   provided a way of escape, both while you are in this earth, as well as   
   afterwards if you do not allow pride to block that door.   
   >   
   >   
   > > You have a choice, once you reach the age of accountability of with   
   choosing   
   > > the things of this world and all that goes with it, or accepting the   
   > > promised   
   > > Messiah and all that he provides for your escape from it, as well as the   
   > > power to live accordingly and all power over the spiritual enemy. Choose   
   > > blessings or choose curses, default is the world you were born into.   
   >   
   > What would be the point of choosing curses over blessings?   
      
   Without Jesus that is the default.   
   >   
   >   
   > > > > > > > > Mat 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing,   
   butthat   
   > > > > > > > > rather   
   > > > > > > > > a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before   
   the   
   > > > > > > > > multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just   
   person:   
   > > > > > > > > see ye to it.   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > Baloney.   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > The story is well known, as is the story of what his wife saw In a   
   dream   
   > > > > > > and relayed to him at the trial.   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > It is well-known, but it's probably apocryphal.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > Any excuse to justify the choices you make.   
   > > >   
   > > > How is "apocryphal" an excuse?   
   > >   
   > > You were avoiding accepting the uncontested truth.   
   >   
   > Which was what?   
      
   What the context of this part of the exchange was about.   
   >   
   >   
   > > > > > > > > Mat 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His bloodbe   
   on us,   
   > > > > > > > > and on our children.   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > Which is exactly what the early Christian church *wanted* them   
   to have   
   > > > > > > > said, so they could more easily differentiate themselves from   
   their   
   > > > > > > > Jewish beginnings and neighbors.   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > The early church were jewish believers in Christ, and their   
   relatives   
   > > > > > > who   
   > > > > > > did   
   > > > > > > not believe in Jesus they for certain did not want them to be   
   alienated.   
   > > > > > > You   
   > > > > > > are just blowing smoke, speaking things without thinking and with   
   a knee   
   > > > > > > jerk   
   > > > > > > reaction. The church you were mosr familiar with was no more   
   related to   
   > > > > > > Jesus   
   > > > > > > than the JW. And to take those ideas and place that understanding   
   on   
   > > > > > > other   
   > > > > > > is a great error.   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > No, they wanted to go beyond Judaism. That's why they argued that   
   > > > > > Jewish ceremonial laws like kosher food didn't apply to Christians   
   and   
   > > > > > newly converted Gentiles.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > Yet they rigidly followed the Law Covenant in most areas. We have   
   already   
   > > > > discussed that in part, not long ago. What did they know about Grace?   
   And   
   > > > > why have many departed from them?   
   > > >   
   > > > But they began to throw off the Jewish yoke, as it were, as they began   
   > > > to see themselves as Christians and not theological Jews. And grace   
   > > > without works is dead, to paraphrase the book of James.   
   > >   
   > > There was no jewish yoke. They signed up, and at the time of Christ both   
   the   
   > > northern and the southern tribes both had divorced themselves from God,   
   > > choosing the gods of this earth and abandoned Him. Only a small remnant   
   > > remained faithful to God.   
   >   
   > The book of Leviticus which was foisted on unsuspecting Israelites,   
   > can't be better described by anything other than that it's a yoke.   
      
   They willingly voted on it all.   
   >   
   >   
   > > As to James, it does not say what you claimed. It said that Faith without   
   > > works is dead.   
   >   
   > I said I was paraphrasing it. Grace and faith share the characteristic   
   > loophole that you should be able to get away with anything, as long as   
   > you have faith, or trust in God's grace.   
      
   Nope, you get away with nothing, a person is forgiven, but if they willingly   
   dwell in their past sins that shows they were not sincere. Christ taught   
   about that in the parable of the seeds.   
   >   
   >   
   > > > > > > > > > > The priests were the ones who stirred up the population   
   against   
   > > > > > > > > > > Jesus.   
   > > > > > > > > > > Not   
   > > > > > > > > > > all, as there were some who were followers of Jesus   
   secretly. The   
   > > > > > > > > > > High   
   > > > > > > > > > > Priest   
   > > > > > > > > > > of Israel at the time of the birth of Jesus believed that   
   the   
   > > > > > > > > > > Messiah   
   > > > > > > > > > > was   
   > > > > > > > > > > coming, were looking for him, and even recognized Jesus as   
   the   
   > > > > > > > > > > Messiah   
   > > > > > > > > > > when   
   > > > > > > > > > > he was presented to them soon after his birth, and they   
   rejoiced.   
   > > > > > > > > > > John   
   > > > > > > > > > > the   
   > > > > > > > > > > Baptist Was a cousin of his, who grew up not knowing Jesus   
   > > > > > > > > > > personally.   
   > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > No, crucifixion is a quintessentially Roman mode of   
   execution. It   
   > > > > > > > > > wasn't the Jews who stirred up the population against Jesus,   
   but the   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)