XPost: sci.skeptic, alt.atheism, alt.conspiracy
XPost: alt.religion.christian
From: Dawn.Belle.Flood@gmail.com
On 9/24/2025 2:15 AM, None wrote:
> On Sep 23, 2025, Dawn Flood wrote
> (Message-ID: <10ava3e$3agu7$2@dont-email.me>):
>
>> On 9/22/2025 7:38 PM, None wrote:
>>> On Sep 22, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote
>>> (Message-ID:):
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 22 Sep 2025 12:46:08 -0700, None wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 22, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote
>>>>> (Message-ID:):
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 22 Sep 2025 09:47:38 -0700, None wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sep 22, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote
>>>>>>> (Message-ID:<51k2dkp25k552cd68ir6p4luk488q1qia2@4ax.com>):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 22 Sep 2025 03:12:45 -0700, "Andrew"
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "JTEM" wrote in message news:10apq31$1vqea$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>>>>> Andrew wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, but the Jews vehemently petitioned Pilate, specifically for
Him
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> be crucified.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't believe it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It seems that the Romans, who invented the story, cast the hated
>>>>>>>>>> Jews as the bad guys.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But they were Jews themselves who wrote what happened..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Judaism was the main competition for the early Christian church, so
>>>>>>>> they tried to make "the Jews" look as bad as possible when they made
>>>>>>>> up their stories about Jesus.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In whose mind? Yours?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The believers in Jesus as the Messiah were all Jews in the beginning.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But then they branched off, theologically, leaving an emotional rift
>>>>>> between Jews and Messianic Jews. Refusal to follow Jesus as the
>>>>>> Messiah did not leave first-century Jews in Christians' good graces.
>>>>>
>>>>> Theology is not of God, but of mans understandings. It is a false
>>>>> understanding because it stems from the mind of men who speculate on who
>>>>> God
>>>>> is, and it is NOT definitive. Never depend on it as having full wisdom
and
>>>>> knowledge. It is often misleading and serves to confuse, and for that
>>>>> reason
>>>>> many denominations err and there is separation and not a common bond.
>>>>
>>>> To say "Christ is risen" is a theological statement in addition to
>>>> being an attempt at history.
>>>
>>> To whose way of thinking as there were over 500 witnesses of it. Plus to
>>> think that someone was trying to create history is foolish, for such
>>> attempts
>>> have been tried similar to that, but were always disproven, and or been
>>> discredited soon afterwards.
>>
>> The so-called "500 witnesses" is likely a latter embellishment added by
>> some scribe to "beef up" Paul's account, or Paul himself is just
>> storytelling. Nowhere is this supposed "mass apparition" ever mentioned
>> anywhere else, either elsewhere in the New Testament or in secular
>> sources, and none of the 500 are ever named, nor did any of them leave
>> any surviving accounts of their own individual experiences, or convey
>> those experiences to anyone else.
>>
>> As with the "crucifixion darkness," the appearances to 500 human beings
>> lacks contextual credibility, as it only gets mentioned in one single
>> source, when, in fact, it should have been mentioned in dozens of
>> independent sources if, in fact, it had happened.
>
> It was. It is mentioned by others in the NT. Most notable John, Matthew Luke,
> Mark.
>
> Paul was not an eyewitness of Jesus at that time. Paul saw him for the first
> time on the road to Damascus
>
> 1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received,
> how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
>
> 1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day
> according to the scriptures:
>
> 1Co 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
>
> 1Co 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of
> whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
>
> 1Co 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
>
> 1Co 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due
> time.
>
> Jesus then taught Paul in the desert for during a time of three years.
>
> Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of
> me is not after man.
>
> Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taughtit, but by the
> revelation of Jesus Christ.
>
> Gal 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews'
> religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted
> it:
>
> ***
>
> Gal 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before
> me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
>
> Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and
> abode with him fifteen days.
>
> Gal 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
>
> Gal 1:20 Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie
> not.
>
>
An interesting contradiction occurs with Paul's testimony, which was
pointed out by Thomas Paine, one of America's founding fathers. Here it
is in outline form:
1) Paul, while being a Jew, claims to have persecuted Christians, a
claim also made about him by the author of Acts.
2) When someone persecutes another, especially, a strange, it is
because you do not like what that person has done, is saying, and/or
certain viewpoints that they, as a group, hold to. (As an example, it
is possible for a Jew and a Muslim to hate each other even though they
have never met.)
3) As such, Paul, prior to his conversion to Christianity, must have
head the accounts of Jesus of Nazareth rising from the dead, which must
have included the so-called appearances of Jesus to the "five hundred".
In spite of hearing those accounts, Paul continued to persecute
Christians; as such, Paul himself did not find the accounts of Jesus
being raised from the dead by God as being convincing.
4) It was only after Paul's private experience that he converted.
Conclusion: The only evidence that Paul offers for the Risen Christ is
his private experience, as he himself discounted all the experiences of
all the other Christians who claimed to have experienced the Risen Christ.
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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