XPost: sci.skeptic, alt.atheism, alt.conspiracy
XPost: alt.religion.christian
From: none@none.non
On Sep 24, 2025, Dawn Flood wrote
(Message-ID: <10b16k1$3p0ga$1@dont-email.me>):
> On 9/24/2025 2:15 AM, None wrote:
> > On Sep 23, 2025, Dawn Flood wrote
> > (Message-ID: <10ava3e$3agu7$2@dont-email.me>):
> >
> > > On 9/22/2025 7:38 PM, None wrote:
> > > > On Sep 22, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote
> > > > (Message-ID:):
> > > >
> > > > > On Mon, 22 Sep 2025 12:46:08 -0700, None wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Sep 22, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote
> > > > > > (Message-ID:):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, 22 Sep 2025 09:47:38 -0700, None wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sep 22, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote
> > > > > > > > (Message-ID:<51k2dkp25k552cd68ir6p4luk488q1qia2@4ax.com>):
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, 22 Sep 2025 03:12:45 -0700, "Andrew"
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "JTEM" wrote in message news:10apq31$1vqea$1
dont-email.me...
> > > > > > > > > > > Andrew wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, but the Jews vehemently petitioned Pilate,
specifically for
> > > > > > > > > > > > Him
> > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > be crucified.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I don't believe it.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > It seems that the Romans, who invented the story, cast
the hated
> > > > > > > > > > > Jews as the bad guys.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > But they were Jews themselves who wrote what happened..
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Judaism was the main competition for the early Christian
church, so
> > > > > > > > > they tried to make "the Jews" look as bad as possible when
they made
> > > > > > > > > up their stories about Jesus.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In whose mind? Yours?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The believers in Jesus as the Messiah were all Jews in the
beginning.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But then they branched off, theologically, leaving an emotional
rift
> > > > > > > between Jews and Messianic Jews. Refusal to follow Jesus as the
> > > > > > > Messiah did not leave first-century Jews in Christians' good
graces.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Theology is not of God, but of mans understandings. It is a false
> > > > > > understanding because it stems from the mind of men who speculate
on who
> > > > > > God
> > > > > > is, and it is NOT definitive. Never depend on it as having full
wisdom
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > knowledge. It is often misleading and serves to confuse, and for
that
> > > > > > reason
> > > > > > many denominations err and there is separation and not a common
bond.
> > > > >
> > > > > To say "Christ is risen" is a theological statement in addition to
> > > > > being an attempt at history.
> > > >
> > > > To whose way of thinking as there were over 500 witnesses of it. Plus
to
> > > > think that someone was trying to create history is foolish, for such
> > > > attempts
> > > > have been tried similar to that, but were always disproven, and or been
> > > > discredited soon afterwards.
> > >
> > > The so-called "500 witnesses" is likely a latter embellishment added by
> > > some scribe to "beef up" Paul's account, or Paul himself is just
> > > storytelling. Nowhere is this supposed "mass apparition" ever mentioned
> > > anywhere else, either elsewhere in the New Testament or in secular
> > > sources, and none of the 500 are ever named, nor did any of them leave
> > > any surviving accounts of their own individual experiences, or convey
> > > those experiences to anyone else.
> > >
> > > As with the "crucifixion darkness," the appearances to 500 human beings
> > > lacks contextual credibility, as it only gets mentioned in one single
> > > source, when, in fact, it should have been mentioned in dozens of
> > > independent sources if, in fact, it had happened.
> >
> > It was. It is mentioned by others in the NT. Most notable John, Matthew
> > Luke,
> > Mark.
> >
> > Paul was not an eyewitness of Jesus at that time. Paul saw him for the
first
> > time on the road to Damascus
> >
> > 1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received,
> > how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
> >
> > 1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day
> > according to the scriptures:
> >
> > 1Co 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
> >
> > 1Co 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of
> > whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
> >
> > 1Co 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
> >
> > 1Co 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due
> > time.
> >
> > Jesus then taught Paul in the desert for during a time of three years.
> >
> > Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of
> > me is not after man.
> >
> > Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taughtit, but by
> > the
> > revelation of Jesus Christ.
> >
> > Gal 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews'
> > religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and
wasted
> > it:
> >
> > ***
> >
> > Gal 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before
> > me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
> >
> > Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and
> > abode with him fifteen days.
> >
> > Gal 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's
> > brother.
> >
> > Gal 1:20 Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie
> > not.
This was an interesting read. At first I thought you were writing a synopsis
of one of his writings, but such does not appear to be the case. I have not
studied his works, but I briefly reviewed some of the comments made by others
who have their own views of what he wrote. Sadly it is difficult to comment
on them since I would have to study up on Paine in order to know something
about him, and it would have to be mainly the things written by his hand, not
based on the comments of others, unless they were peer friends of his,
personally.
What little I read this morning, was a whole lot of things supposedly of what
he said and thought, but it was clear that people cherry picked phrases that
lent themselves to support their personal agendas. According to what you
outlined it would seem that Paine had at best a shallow and limited
[continued in next message]
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* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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