From: oldernow@dev.null   
      
   On 2024-02-03, D  wrote:   
      
   Before going any further.. I popped my copy of Idiocracy in the DVD   
   player during dinner last night... sadly *prophetic* of our times,   
   methinks. The "reasoning" about why there were electrolytes in the   
   Brawndo energy drink sounded straight out of a Kamala Harris speech   
   if you ask me....   
      
   Actually, I didn't find the movie nearly as good as I thought I   
   found it back when it came out. I suspect that's due to just how   
   much of what they were hyperbole-izing has come to not merely *pass*   
   in the time sense, but pass as "what seemingly most consider how   
   things ought to be".   
      
   Let me say that I'm not a fan of Donald Trump "as a person" and   
   the seeming cult that's developed around him. And yet I find the   
   "other side" even more horrifying. It seems like a stupidity contest   
   to me. "OH YEAH?!?! YOU HAMMER WIT JAR COVER? WELL.. I HAMMER WIT   
   BOOGER!!! TAKE *DAT*, DUMBASS!!!"   
      
   I'd not want to live in a society that was either. And yet I've wound   
   up in one that's *both*. Hence my aforementioned (I think...) telling   
   my wife "we're going to be getting the hell out of here (i.e. die)   
   just in time".   
      
   But while I don't care for Trump's personality, I liked gasoline   
   being half the current price, and my investments being worth 50%   
   more than what they after the seeming Dem gutting of the economy.   
      
   But to me, the current state of general idiocy implies hopelessness   
   in political realms, because whether it's "rigged" or the consequence   
   of morons casting ballots, I can't see a positive result.   
      
   Heh... maybe I'm so drawn to kooky "philosophy"/mysticism because   
   what used to seem a tolerable "nothing's perfect" reality has become   
   a brain/tooth-less theme park. See also: the great inner escape.   
      
   > I myself, believe the mind is just a function of matter and   
   > electrons moving around in our brains. Very reductionist   
   > and materialist. And also, let me hasten to add, science   
   > does not yet know what mind/self-awareness is or how it   
   > comes to be.   
      
   Your guess is as good as yours. I mean mine. :-)   
      
   > And no, I do _not_ believe that ChatGPT is anywhere close   
   > to being sentient even though I've seen that on many   
   > places online.   
      
   I'm actually closer to the opinion that most humans aren't as   
   sentient as ChatGPT. :-)   
      
   > So I apologize if I disappointed you with a very plain,   
   > scientific view of the world. ;) I usually also do the   
   > "atheist shift" and say that the one who proposes an   
   > alternative world view to the materialist/scientific one   
   > has the burden of proof, since our materialist/scientific   
   > world view does have the common sense high ground (See   
   > G.E. Moores "here's a hand" proof which I think is   
   > brilliant in its simplicity).   
      
   Don't worry about disappointing me. I enjoy all opinions that don't   
   sound as though they came from a cabinet meeting of the current   
   administration. ;-)   
      
   > I think everyone intelligent creature sooner or later   
   > wonders about the nature of reality. My path led me to   
   > physics and science and I have not found a better way. I   
   > have read about the idealists and the buddhists but I'm   
   > not convinced by their arguments.   
      
   It probably sounds like punting or throwing in the towel, but as   
   I think I've blathered elsewhere, I've become convinced a better   
   way begins with letting go of reason, as reason to me fundamentally   
   starts with the assumption that endless pairs of conceptual opposites   
   accurately represents the situation, which I've come to see as just   
   so much circular hand waving.   
      
   > > Religions call that ability to set the bit thusly "faith". And when   
   > > it's set, we're convinced that whose bit is set thusly is real.   
   > >   
   > > I also started seeing - i.e. believing (haha!) - that   
   > > re-ality seems linked to re-petition, or "againness". Going   
   > > back to the ...  almost sounds like "re-el", and "el"   
   > > the beginning of one of the Old Testament names of God,   
   > > "Elohim"... so... againness of God... re-peat God fast   
   > > enough and whoosh here's the seeming world/reality....?   
   >   
   > I think you lost me there. =(   
      
   Perhaps another way of saying what I attempted to is that there's   
   a suspicious connection between being convinced of seeing patterns   
   and being convinced one is seeing "reality"? Except I'd add that   
   we can't say for sure whether the patterns are "out there", or   
   "business as usual" for "mind".   
      
   Perhaps calling it "pattern re-cognition" drives the point home   
   better?  Doesn't the word "re-cognition" at least imply "againness   
   of cognizing"?   
      
   > There is also, assuming there is no free will, illusory   
   > free will. It might not exist, but for all intents and   
   > purposes, we cannot tell, and should act as if it does.   
      
   "Should"? Why?   
      
   > > My wife accuses me of that all that time. :-)   
   >   
   > Aha, so I'm not alone! ;)   
      
   All threads lead to that admission. :-)   
      
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   oldernow   
   xyz001 at nym.hush.com   
      
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    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)