From: nospam@example.net   
      
   On Sun, 4 Feb 2024, oldernow wrote:   
      
   >>> I try to remind my"self" as often as possible that thinking   
   >>> is modeling/representation that easily becomes a stifling,   
   >>> imprisoning paper bag of a reality that's somehow difficult   
   >>> to punch one's way out of it once in its throes.   
   >>   
   >> Why do you think so?   
   >   
   > Because aboutness - aka representation - masks the ineffable   
   > underlying reality.   
      
   So you don't think it is possible for the mind and intelligence to reach   
   it in the future? On the other hand... I always say that if we're   
   talking about "god" it would reduce him to a natural phenomenon and per   
   definition make him not "god". ;)   
      
   >> And how do you punch your way out of it?   
   >   
   > By not clinging to the aboutness/representation as though it were   
   > the reality.   
      
   As in "letting go" or "forgetting"?   
      
   >>> The phrase "all mental is illness" came to me decades ago,   
   >>> and it remains a favorite.   
   >>   
   >> What does it mean?   
   >   
   > Well, the species is fond of speaking of one sector/kind   
   > of mentality as being "ill". From my studies, mentation   
   > masks/conceals our true nature as raw awareness. Therefore,   
   > from the point of view of becoming to-called "enlightened"   
   > (to "our true nature as raw awareness"), *all* mental - aka   
   > mentation/conceptualizing/representing - is illness with respect   
   > to said enlightenment being in contrast to that.   
      
   Ahh ok, now you are making more sense when I better understand what you   
   mean with raw awareness. Yes, I guess if that is the focus I can see how   
   you can look at it like that. I don't think I do, but given your views   
   and definitions, I'd definitely say that it fits together.   
      
   > So... it's not illness in what we think of as normal daily living,   
   > which seemingly takes place in a dualism of mind, so the phrase can't   
   > make sense to someone thinking "this ('normal daily living') is it".   
   > But once you "insperience" awareness abiding itself, well... living   
   > in Plato's cave of representation - i.e. "in the life is but a   
   > (conceptual) dream" - suddenly looks relatively "ill"....   
   >   
   > I recall when I was a kid, people spoke of others being "mental".   
   >   
   > And what the phrase you've asked me to explain better suggests is:   
   > *AND HOW*.... ;-)   
      
   Got it! Thank you very much for explaining. Makes much more sense now.   
      
   Best regards,   
   Daniel   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)