From: oldernow@dev.null   
      
   On 2024-04-23, Richmond  wrote:   
      
   >> Isn't it amazing how few understand that differentiating   
   >> themselves from others - especially employing/embracing   
   >> a label to emphasize that differentiation - invites   
   >> the perception of the others that those differentiating   
   >> themselves are *distancing* themselves from them - which is   
   >> half a hoppy skip from the perception that the distancing   
   >> is due to those differentiating themselves considering   
   >> themselves superior to the others.   
   >>   
   >> Is that really such rocket science?   
   >>   
   >> Apparently.   
   >>   
   >> The sad hilarity is even greater when the distancers   
   >> talk of wanting unity/oneness whilst insisting they are   
   >> different!   
      
   > Considering human evolution, how would you organize   
   > yourselves to hunt and kill a woolly mammoth, without   
   > such notions of self and other?   
   >   
   > Though we are many, we are one body, because we all share,   
   > in one woolly mammoth.   
      
   The idea that I believe is alluded to by non-dualist points   
   of view is that the notions of self and other(-than-self,   
   which includes impersonal "other" like "the world") appear   
   part and parcel. In other words, as soon as any notion   
   implying separation from the ineffable underlying reality   
   is conceived, all the rest follows - or "magically appears"   
   - as supporting conceptuality, because no concept stands   
   utterly alone: they're mutually inter-defined.   
      
   So, yes, of course it takes notions of self and other   
   to organize a mammoth hunt once the notion of "the world"   
   containing selves, others, and mammoths is accepted as a given,   
   as "reality". What I refer to as absence of (the notion of)   
   self actually refers to the absence of notionality altogether,   
   sometimes described as a serene, peaceful awareness sans the   
   madness of insisting that awareness be discriminated into   
   an endless series/collection of separate notions declared   
   to be "reality". The peace/serenity of raw, undifferentiated   
   awareness winds up replaced with a representational reality   
   that we try - as selves believing in ourselves and all the   
   supporting conceptuality - really hard to consider "real   
   reality". But it seems to me (read: "me" in the context of   
   this message) the ensuing mostly peaceless madness thereof   
   screams something about it necessarily goes horribly wrong.   
      
   But, as usual, attempting to describe what can't be   
   described quickly feels unsatisfying in the context of   
   believing in one's self, in "the world", and all the rest   
   of the supporting purely conceptual cast.   
      
   --   
   oldernow   
   xyz001 at nym.hush.com   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)