From: ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de   
      
   sobriquet  wrote or quoted:   
   >For instance, think of a bird that sees a worm inside a glass tube that   
   >is half filled with water. It can't reach the worm with its beak to   
   >eat it, but there are some stones laying nearby. The bird might realize   
   >that the stones might help it achieve its goal of eating the worm if   
   >it picks up the stones and drops them in the water to raise the water   
   >level until it can reach the worm. There might also be some pieces of   
   >wood laying around but if it would use those, the wood might end up   
   >floating on the surface on top of the worm, so the bird has to choose   
   >which things are suitable to drop in the water that would sink to the   
   >bottom while the worm remains floating on top.   
      
     It's conceivable that even simple expert systems or chat   
     programs from earlier decades could follow similar patterns of   
     interdependent subtasks, without us thinking they had consciousness.   
     Here's an excerpt from a dialogue from the 60s that I'm quoting:   
      
   |Person:   Had you touched any pyramid before you put the green   
   |          one on the little cube?   
   |Computer: YES, THE GREEN ONE.   
   |Person:   When did you pick it up?   
   |Computer: WHILE I WAS STACKING UP THE RED CUBE, A LARGE RED   
   |          BLOCK AND A LARGE GREEN CUBE.   
   |Person:   Why?   
   |Computer: TO GET RID OF IT.   
   |Person:   Why did you do that?   
   |Computer: TO CLEAN OFF THE RED CUBE.   
   |Person:   Why did you clear off that cube?   
   |Computer: TO PUT IT ON A LARGE GREEN CUBE.   
   |Person:   Why did you do that?   
   |Computer: TO STACK UP THE RED CUBE , A LARGE RED BLOCK AND A   
   |          LARGE GREEN CUBE.   
   |Person:   Why did you do that?   
   |Computer: BECAUSE YOU ASKED ME TO.   
   from a dialog with SHRDLU   
      
     But I intuitively believe it's clear that animals have   
     consciousness. A plausible justification for me would be that   
     they're built similar to us (with a nervous system/brain) and   
     behave similar to us so they probably have similar sensations   
     too. Recently, some scientists also gave an explanation   
     saying they believe many animals have consciousness.   
      
   |Nearly 40 researchers signed "The New York Declaration on   
   |Animal Consciousness," which was first presented at a   
   |conference at New York University on Friday morning.   
    . . .   
   |The declaration says there is "strong scientific support"   
   |that birds and mammals have conscious experience, and a   
   |"realistic possibility" of consciousness for all vertebrates   
   |- including reptiles, amphibians and fish. That possibility   
   |extends to many creatures without backbones, it adds, such as   
   |insects, decapod crustaceans (including crabs and lobsters)   
   |and cephalopod mollusks, like squid, octopus and cuttlefish.   
    . . .   
   April 19, 2024   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)