From: dohduhdah@yahoo.com   
      
   Op 25/04/2024 om 11:10 schreef Stefan Ram:   
   > sobriquet  wrote or quoted:   
   >> We can think of a minimal context where consciousness plays an essential   
   >> role, like learning or playing the game of go.   
   >   
   >    Some people call consciousness an "epiphenomenon" meaning that it   
   >    cannot be observed (measured). It think that's wrong because we   
   >    (= systems with consciousness) speak words like, "I'm wondering what   
   >    this feeling of 'being there' that I have is all about. Let's call   
   >    it 'consciousness' for now!". A system without consciousness would   
   >    not speak such words (except in situations where this would be   
   >    explicitly programmed into the system from outside). The words are   
   >    observable and insofar consciousness is observable. As far as I am   
   >    aware, until today, our AI systems never have expressed such wonder.   
      
   I think language is not a necessary condition for consciousness.   
   Language allows individuals in a population to exchange information   
   more effectively.   
   Consciousness can also be inferred from behavior under certain   
   circumstances. Like if an individual is in a complicated situation where   
   it has a large range of things it could do and a desire or motivation   
   to achieve a particular outcome where only a small fraction of things   
   it could do would enable it to achieve its goals.   
      
   For instance, think of a bird that sees a worm inside a glass tube that   
   is half filled with water. It can't reach the worm with its beak to   
   eat it, but there are some stones laying nearby. The bird might realize   
   that the stones might help it achieve its goal of eating the worm if   
   it picks up the stones and drops them in the water to raise the water   
   level until it can reach the worm. There might also be some pieces of   
   wood laying around but if it would use those, the wood might end up   
   floating on the surface on top of the worm, so the bird has to choose   
   which things are suitable to drop in the water that would sink to the   
   bottom while the worm remains floating on top.   
   You can envision such scenarios that require complex reasoning to   
   achieve goals and then consciousness could be demonstrated by   
   successfully solving such problems.   
      
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZerUbHmuY04   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)