From: nospam@example.net   
      
     This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,   
     while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.   
      
   On Sun, 2 Feb 2025, Ed Cryer wrote:   
      
   > D wrote:   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> On Sat, 1 Feb 2025, Ed Cryer wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> I should think that anyone at all perusing a philosophy forum will   
   >>> recognise the maxim in the title. If a tree falls in a Siberian forest and   
   >>> there's no one around to hear it, does it make a noise?   
   >>> They'll also recognise the standard reply. Falling trees cause vibrations   
   >>> in the air, which impact on eardrums and produce the perception of sound   
   >>> in the mind. No ears, no sound.   
   >>>   
   >>> This is, of course, the main entry point into phenomenalism (what George   
   >>> Berkeley termed "empirical idealism").   
   >>> I believe that today realism rules the roost. But I'm not sure just why.   
   >>>   
   >>> Does anyone know of any knockout arguments in favour of metaphysical   
   >>> realism?   
   >>   
   >> Metaphysical realism, is the Donald Trump of isms at the moment, as you   
   >> say. Here are some arguments:   
   >>   
   >> 1. G.E. Moores here's a hand.   
   >>   
   >> 2. The Success of Science: One of the strongest arguments for metaphysical   
   >> realism is the success of the natural sciences. The ability of scientific   
   >> theories to accurately describe and predict phenomena in the world suggests   
   >> that there is an objective reality that exists independently of our   
   >> perceptions or beliefs. The consistent success of scientific methods in   
   >> uncovering truths about the universe implies that there are real entities   
   >> and structures that science is discovering.   
   >>   
   >> 3. The Problem of Underdetermination: Metaphysical realism addresses the   
   >> issue of underdetermination, which is the idea that empirical data can   
   >> often be explained by multiple theories. Realists argue that the existence   
   >> of a mind-independent reality provides a basis for preferring one theory   
   >> over another. If reality exists independently, then the best explanation   
   >> for the data is the one that corresponds to that reality, rather than   
   >> merely being a convenient or useful construct.   
   >>   
   >> 4. Common Sense and Intuition: Many people have a strong intuitive belief   
   >> in the existence of an external world that is independent of our thoughts   
   >> and perceptions. This common-sense view aligns with metaphysical realism,   
   >> as it posits that objects and events exist regardless of whether they are   
   >> being observed or thought about. This intuitive stance can be seen as a   
   >> foundational aspect of human experience and understanding.   
   >>   
   >> 5. The Argument from Truth: Metaphysical realism posits that truth is a   
   >> correspondence between beliefs or statements and the actual state of   
   >> affairs in the world. If there is no mind-independent reality, then the   
   >> concept of truth becomes problematic, as it would rely solely on subjective   
   >> perspectives. Realism maintains that there are objective truths about the   
   >> world that exist independently of our beliefs, which provides a robust   
   >> framework for understanding truth.   
   >>   
   >> 6. The Explanatory Power of Realism: Metaphysical realism offers a powerful   
   >> explanatory framework for understanding various phenomena, including the   
   >> existence of abstract entities (like numbers or properties) and the nature   
   >> of causation. By positing a reality that exists independently of our minds,   
   >> realism can account for the relationships and interactions between   
   >> different entities in a coherent manner, providing a more comprehensive   
   >> understanding of the world.   
   >>   
   >> In terms of reality, and realted to 4, it can be argued that the burden of   
   >> proof   
   >> lies on the idealist to come up with an argument disproving reality or   
   >> proving   
   >> the idealist alternative. To my knowledge, no such uncontrovertible proof   
   >> has   
   >> ever been produced in our 2500 years of philosophy.   
   >>   
   >>> Ed   
   >>>   
   >>> There once was a man who said "God   
   >>> Must think it exceedingly odd   
   >>> If he finds that this tree   
   >>> Continues to be   
   >>> When there's no one about in the Quad."   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> Dear Sir,   
   >>>              Your astonishment's odd.   
   >>> I am always about in the Quad.   
   >>> And that's why the tree   
   >>> Will continue to be   
   >>> Since observed by   
   >>>                          Yours faithfully,   
   >>>                                  
    Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  God   
   >>>   
   >   
   > You speak with all the attitude and confidence of someone who has a deep   
   > interest in philosophy. You belong in this group.   
   > I may have jumped to a wrong conclusion having read only your rant against   
   > fellow flight passengers previously.   
   > Nice to know you.   
   >   
   > Ed   
      
   Hello Ed, like many, if not most humans, I have many sides. I have a   
   trollish side, a misogynist side, a philosophical side, a Trumpian side...   
      
   What determines what gets written down is the input, and the mood of the   
   day. ;)   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)