From: dnomhcir@gmx.com   
      
   D  writes:   
      
   > Nope. Electrons have properties which we can measure, and which have   
   > effects on the world.   
      
   (This really is begging the question, though you disagree). I thought we   
   had agreed that electrons are theoretical, mathematical, tools for   
   thought? Now they have gone back to being causes of affects, thus   
   necessarily physical entities. Unless you want to go down the   
   Mathematical Universe Theory route, which is fascinating.   
      
   It has just finally occured to me though that when you say electrons   
   have effects, or are effects, you mean that they are defined in that   
   way, and so in some sense they are testable. Although it is not the   
   electron itself which is testable, but whatever effect it produces.   
      
   > Parallel universes do not. Dinosaurs we can theorize about, since it   
   > is (or was) a phenomenon in this world. We can for instance, bury an   
   > animal carcass, let it sit for 10 years in the ground, and come to the   
   > conclusion that it decomposes and bones are left over.   
      
   Fossils are made of stone, so ten years won't do it. But plausibility is   
   important.   
      
   > Electrons are effects and porperties in this world, which we can   
   > measure.   
      
   Still begging the question. But they may be defined as having   
   effects. They can't be defined as being effects because they can't be   
   observed.   
      
   If I say God makes the leaves grow on trees (as people used to think),   
   do you then say ah, God has effects which can be measured?   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)