XPost: sci.skeptic, alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian   
   From: x@x.org   
      
   On 4/15/25 05:22, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:   
   > On Mon, 14 Apr 2025 14:55:54 -0700   
   > Bob Casanova  wrote:   
   >   
   >> On Mon, 14 Apr 2025 21:12:08 +0100, the following appeared   
   >> in sci.skeptic, posted by "Kerr-Mudd, John"   
   >> :   
   >>   
   >>> On Mon, 14 Apr 2025 12:34:23 -0700   
   >>> Bob Casanova  wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> On Mon, 14 Apr 2025 09:31:04 -0700, the following appeared   
   >>>> in sci.skeptic, posted by Ron Hamilton   
   >>>> :   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> On 1/21/2011 10:18 AM, T. Howard Pines, Jr. wrote:   
   >>>>>> Coming into existence, or "getting to experience life", is not better   
   than never   
   >>>>>> existing.  It can't be, because no such comparison can be made.  Nor   
   can   
   >>>>>> existence be worse than never existing, for the same reason.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Correct.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>> Agreed. While the stated comparison isn't, strictly speaking   
   >>>> and AFAIK, a logical fallacy, it *is* an error in logic.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> In order to say that anything is better or worse for an entity, one   
   necessarily   
   >>>>>> is talking about two different states of welfare or well-being for the   
   entity.   
   >>>>>> But an entity must exist in order to have a welfare state of   
   well-being.  Thus,   
   >>>>>> the comparison between existence and non-existence, from the   
   perspective of the   
   >>>>>> entity, cannot be made.  It is absurd.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Also correct.   
   >>>   
   >>> I think "David" no longer posts to Usenet.   
   >>>   
   >>> It's been 14 years since this "discussion"   
   >>>   
   >> "David"? I only see Ron and T. Howard.   
   >>   
   > He was a constant poster back then, with this very bee (about existence) in   
   > his bonnet, Vegetarians were denying animals the right to be born and   
   > experience life before being eaten.   
   >   
   >> That aside, I didn't notice the age; thanks for the   
   >> heads-up.   
   >>>   
   > OK.   
      
   Yea I did not notice this thread was that old either.   
      
   I found it in alt.philosophy.   
      
   In general, I think of 'minds' as something different   
   from 'brains'.  In other words 'brains' are like 'hardware'   
   in computers and 'minds' are like 'software'.  I also think   
   it is possible for them to be different on that basis.   
      
   It is hard to say what is 'relevant'.  I have clipped some   
   of the groups from this response.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)