From: rotflol2@hotmail.com   
      
   On 2025-06-05, Ed Cryer  wrote:   
   > Borax Man wrote:   
   >> On 2025-05-17, dsmsot1996  wrote:   
   >>> As "oldernow " has quite politely invited philosophy   
   >>> gurus here, I find it appropriate to bumble in along with my non-sense.   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> Many wise people smarter than I am have tried to accurately pinpoint the   
   >>> source of the worth, this *value* of a human life, and have come up with   
   >>> utterly absurd and ridiculous theories. Intrinsic worth? Sure,buddy. The   
   >>> "soul"? Oh please. But I, with my abysmally inadequate knowledge, have   
   >>> finally arrived to a conclusion and I consider myself to be inarguably   
   >>> correct.   
   >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------   
   >>> The worth of a human life depends upon how much importance it holds in the   
   >>> minds of those interacting with it.   
   >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------   
   >>> Now, picture somebody like Elon Musk. He may be a big shot, worshipped by   
   >>> junior engineers as if he is the messiah of a small-town cult, the sort   
   >>> where they kidnap random people to sacrifice. But these people do not   
   >>> interact with the man. It is a purely parasocial show of adoration. The   
   >>> few people he actually converses with in his daily life, political   
   >>> bigwigs, social media celebrities,and so on, often look down upon him, and   
   >>> consider him to be a nutcase. Compare this to some random worker in a soup   
   >>> kitchen in the Bronx. This person talks to countless people in a day,   
   >>> feeds them, listens to their lives and worries and is considered to be a   
   >>> very kind and polite person. The environment of the worker has higher   
   >>> respect and value for this unnamed worker than the environment of Elon   
   >>> Musk, thus the worker's life has a higher worth.   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> This draws paralells with our economical and financial system. An asset   
   >>> has a higher worth when people consider it to have a higher worth, hence   
   >>> why people covet naturally-formed, impurity-rich lattices of carbon, over   
   >>> the pure lab-grown kind. You are all free to come and argue or even debate   
   >>> with me on this.   
   >>>   
   >> "Worth" doesn't mean much in this context.  An objects value is based on   
   >> how much people are willing to sacrifice or trade to obtain it.  If it   
   >> is not tradable, if you can't buy it, then the question of "worth" is   
   >> meaningless.   
   >>   
   >> Now if we are talking about worth from a non-financial perspective, then   
   >> we could come to some idea, but again, it comes to the individual.  If   
   >> you had to choose between saving Elon or that Soup Worker, and one had   
   >> to die, which way would your decision go?  That ranks the lifes value,   
   >> TO YOU.   
   >>   
   >> But there is no objective measure, only subjective measure.   
   >   
   > There is a way out of your subjective dilemma. And it's enshrined in the   
   > declaration of independence from the founding fathers of USA. "All men   
   > are created equal, and are endowed with certain inalienable rights ...."   
   > OK, so it's proscriptive rather than descriptive; but do you have a   
   > better one? You need some moral foundation for humanity, so I vote for   
   > that one.   
   >   
   > You could have alternatives. Here are some.   
   > All people who bore me aught to die.   
   > Only English-speakers deserve respect.   
   > People who put me down are assholes.   
   >   
   > Choose, or give us an alternative. And don't waste my time with   
   > theoretical clap-trap that won't work on the streets; save that for   
   > trolls and idiots.   
   >   
   > Ed   
      
   I don't think there is a subjective dilemma.   
      
   Peoples lives are valued different depending on which perspective.  My   
   mothers life is more valuable to me than some random person in Cameroon,   
   but I'm sure someone in Cameroon sees the opposite.   
      
   This isn't a conflict to be sorted out.  It just is what it is.   
      
   As for equality, thats from the US founding documents.  I'm not   
   American.  It may surprise you, but MOST of the world is not American.   
      
   It gets a little tiring having American ideals shoved on us.  The   
   problem here is you, with your desire to be objective, which is   
   dangerous, and leads to dissolution of nation, family of tribe and the   
   like.   
      
   No, not everyone is equal, and to me, not everyone is of the same value.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)