XPost: talk.politics, alt.law-enforcement, alt.true-crime   
   XPost: talk.philosophy.humanism   
   From: swayser@optonline.net   
      
   David V. wrote:   
      
   > Don Swayser wrote:   
   >   
   >> .... Contrary to your contention the deasth[sic] penalty is a   
   >> deterent[sic] to violence of the most extreme form, murder.   
   >> The death penalty wasn't applied, until recent years,   
   >> since the mid-seventies. The murder rate rose during   
   >> those years. Since the death penalty is again being   
   >> pronounced the murder rate has declined. It is now down   
   >> to pre-ban rates. Those are the facts....   
   >   
   >   
   > Those may be "facts" but it is a fallacy to assume that the   
   > removal of the death penalty caused a rise in the murder   
   > rate. Texas has been offing people for a long time and their   
   > death row is still packed. Those that claim that capital punishment is a   
   > deterrent know nothing about, and aren't interested in, studying   
   > criminal behavior. They just want revenge.   
      
   Then you believe that the rise and fall of the murder rate which   
   coincides with the abolition and reinstatement of the death penalty is a   
   coincidence? And you don't care about the murder killing a prison nurse.   
   Ok. Let's try this from another angle. This is a true story. I was in   
   the Army back in 1968. I had a 24 hour pass starting at six in the   
   morning. I went to a little town and met somebody. The town was about   
   4-5 miles from the base. I met somebody and went back to her place. She   
   lived about another 3 miles further away. It was VERY cold and windy and   
   was snowing hard. We got very blasted and eventually drifted off to   
   sleep. I awoke about 3:30 in the morning. I awoke her and told her I   
   needed to get back to base. She was still way too screwed up to drive   
   and we both knew it. I called three different taxi services and each one   
   said the same thing, the roads were too bad. I would have to walk. The   
   snow was about a four and a half deep and was the wet, clinging snow   
   that builds up on your boots. I started walking and it was very slow and   
   hard going. There was a 24 hr. convenience store open about half a mile   
   from the town and there was a customers car in the parking lot. The   
   engine was running. Why not, who would expect someone to be out that   
   late under those conditions. God, that car looked tempting. All I had to   
   do was walk through the parking lot, get in and go. What stopped me?   
   Because it was wrong? Think that and you're out of your skull. I simply   
   knew that if I slid off the road and got stuck I would probably get   
   caught, arrested and convicted. Then I'd face a court martial and serve   
   more time in the stockade. It was fear of retribution plain and simple.   
      
   Now, what does this have to do with the death penalty? When children are   
   growing up and misbehave some form of punishment to deter them from   
   repeating the error. Punishment IS a deterrent. Time spent in prison for   
   breaking laws is a deterrent. If it weren't there would be no reason for   
   prisons. Then how can the death penalty NOT be a deterrent? You have to   
   accept that or open the prison gates. I'll grant that it isn't a   
   deterrent for someone in an emotional rage. But those people don't get   
   the death penalty. It is more often meted out as a punishment for cold   
   blooded murder. To those people it most certainly is a deterrent and to   
   maintain otherwise, especially in the face of other evidence, such as   
   the co-incidence mentioned earlier, seems a defiance of logic.   
      
   --   
   If you want to be free, there is but one way; it is to guarantee an   
   equally full measure of liberty to all your neighbors. There is no other.   
   Carl Schurz (1829-1906)   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)