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|    alt.privacy    |    Discussing privacy, laws, tinfoil hats    |    112,125 messages    |
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|    Message 110,601 of 112,125    |
|    George Musk to All    |
|    Is Telegram really an encrypted messagin    |
|    26 Aug 24 13:24:52    |
      [continued from previous message]              cares about confidentiality if you’re talking in the public square?              But Telegram is not limited to just those features, and many users who       join for them will also do other things.              Imagine you’re in a “public square” having a large group conversation. In       that setting there may be no expectation of strong privacy, and so end-to-       end encryption doesn’t really matter to you. But let’s say that you and       five friends step out of the square to have a side conversation. Does that       conversation deserve strong privacy? It doesn’t really matter what you       want, because Telegram won’t provide it, at least not with encryption that       protects you from sharing your content with Telegram servers.              Similarly, imagine you use Telegram for its social media-like features,       meaning that you mainly consume content rather than producing it. But one       day your friend, who also uses Telegram for similar reasons, notices       you’re on the platform and decides she wants to send you a private       message. Are you concerned about privacy now? And are you each going to       manually turn on the “Secret Chat” feature — even though it requires four       explicit clicks through hidden menus, and even though it will prevent you       from communicating immediately if one of you is offline?              My strong suspicion is that many people who join Telegram for its social       media features also end up using it to communicate privately. And I think       Telegram knows this, and tends to advertise itself as a “secure messenger”       and talk about the platform’s encryption features precisely because they       know it makes people feel more comfortable. But in practice, I also       suspect that very few of those users are actually using Telegram’s       encryption. Many of those users may not even realize they have to turn       encryption on manually, and think they’re already using it.              Which brings me to my next point.       Telegram knows its encryption is difficult to turn on, and they continue       to promote their product as a secure messenger              Telegram’s encryption has been subject to heavy criticism since at least       2016 (and possibly earlier) for many of the reasons I outlined in this       post. In fact, many of these criticisms were made by experts including       myself, in years-old conversations with Pavel Durov on Twitter.1              Although the interaction with Durov could sometimes be harsh, I still       mostly assumed good faith from Telegram back in those days. I believed       that Telegram was busy growing their network and that, in time, they would       improve the quality and usability of the platform’s end-to-end encryption:       for example, by activating it as a default, providing support for group       chats, and making it possible to start encrypted chats with offline users.       I assumed that while Telegram might be a follower rather than a leader, it       would eventually reach feature parity with the encryption protocols       offered by Signal and WhatsApp. Of course, a second possibility was that       Telegram would abandon encryption entirely — and just focus on being a       social media platform.              What’s actually happened is a lot more confusing to me.              Instead of improving the usability of Telegram’s end-to-end encryption,       the owners of Telegram have more or less kept their encryption UX       unchanged since 2016. While there have been a few upgrades to the       underlying encryption algorithms used by the platform, the user-facing       experience of Secret Chats in 2024 is almost identical to the one you’d       have seen eight years ago. This, despite the fact that the number of       Telegram users has grown by 7-9x during the same time period.              At the same time, Telegram CEO Pavel Durov has continued to aggressively       market Telegram as a “secure messenger.” Most recently he issued a       scathing criticism of Signal and WhatsApp on his personal Telegram       channel, implying that those systems were backdoored by the US government,       and only Telegram’s independent encryption protocols were really       trustworthy.              While this might be a reasonable nerd-argument if it was taking place       between two platforms that both supported default end-to-end encryption,       Telegram really has no legs to stand on in this particular discussion.       Indeed, it no longer feels amusing to see the Telegram organization urge       people away from default-encrypted messengers, while refusing to implement       essential features that would widely encrypt their own users’ messages. In       fact, it’s starting to feel a bit malicious.       What about the boring encryption details?              This is a cryptography blog and so I’d be remiss if I didn’t spend at       least a little bit of time on the boring encryption protocols. I’d also be       missing a good opportunity to let my mouth gape open in amazement, which       is pretty much what happens every time I look at the internals of       Telegram’s encryption.              I’m going to handle this in one paragraph to reduce the pain, and you can       feel free to skip past it if you’re not interested.              According to what I think is the latest encryption spec, Telegram’s Secret       Chats feature is based on a custom protocol called MTProto 2.0. This       system uses 2048-bit* finite-field Diffie-Hellman key agreement, with       group parameters (I think) chosen by the server.* (Since the Diffie-       Hellman protocol is only executed interactively, this is why Secret Chats       cannot be set up when one user is offline.*) MITM protection is handled by       the end-users, who must compare key fingerprints. There are some weird       random nonces provided by the server, which I don’t fully understands the       purpose of* — and that in the past used to actively make the key exchange       totally insecure against a malicious server (but this has long since been       fixed.*) The resulting keys are then used to power the most amazing, non-       standard authenticated encryption mode ever invented, something called       “Infinite Garble Extension” (IGE) based on AES and with SHA2 handling       authentication.*              NB: Every place I put a “*” in the paragraph above is a point where expert       cryptographers would, in the context of something like a professional       security audit, raise their hands and ask a lot of questions. I’m not       going to go further than this. Suffice it to say that Telegram’s       encryption is unusual.              If you ask me to guess whether the protocol and implementation of Telegram       Secret Chats is secure, I would say quite possibly. To be honest though,       it doesn’t matter how secure something is if people aren’t actually using       it.       Is there anything else I should know?              Yes, unfortunately. Even though end-to-end encryption is one of the best       tools we’ve developed to prevent data compromise, it is hardly the end of       the story. One of the biggest privacy problems in messaging is the       availability of loads of meta-data — essentially data about who uses the       service, who they talk to, and when they do that talking.              This data is not typically protected by end-to-end encryption. Even in       applications that are broadcast-only, such as Telegram’s channels, there       is plenty of useful metadata available about who is listening to a       broadcast. That information alone is valuable to people, as evidenced by       the enormous amounts of money that traditional broadcasters spend to       collect it. Right now all of that information likely exists on Telegram’s       servers, where it is available to anyone who wants to collect it.              I am not specifically calling out Telegram for this, since the same              [continued in next message]              --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05        * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)    |
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