XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-10, alt.privacy.anon-server, comp.sys.mac.advocacy   
   XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone   
   From: newyana@invalid.nospam   
      
   On 9/24/2024 9:13 AM, -hh wrote:   
      
   >> "Standard data protection is the default setting for your account.   
   >> Your iCloud data is encrypted, the encryption keys are secured in   
   >> Apple data centers so we can help you with data recovery, and   
   >> only certain data is end-to-end encrypted."   
   >>   
   >> Translation: Apple have your data.   
   >>   
   >> https://support.apple.com/en-us/102651   
   >   
   >   
   > Except that it wasn't in contention that Apple has one's data.   
   >   
      
      Actually this started with me using the example of online iPhone   
   backup as an example of how people trust Apple and don't care   
   about their privacy. Alan then said the data is encrypted. This   
   blurb and link are simply to show that Apple does, indeed, have   
   access to the data by default.   
      
   > What was in contention was your claim that Apple is like Google, in   
   > claiming unlimited legal rights to it  (e.g. "we can do whatever we damn   
   > well please with your data").   
   >   
      
      They don't need to claim. It's already legal precendent. There have   
   been cases where courts demanded all email from a gmail customer,   
   for example. But they don't demand it from the person. They demand   
   it from Google. For you to put your files on their server gives them a   
   degree of legal co-ownership. It's similar with Microsoft's online   
   data storage or Adobe's Photoshop rental. You data is no longer   
   completely yours once you let them hold it.   
      
      Of course, Google claims the right to rifle through your email.   
   Interestingly, attempts by non-gmailers to sue them over that have   
   failed. Google's basic argument is, "Hey, everyone knows we're sleazeballs.   
   Anyone writing an email to a gmail account can reasonably be expected   
   to know that we're going to treat it as our property." And Google won!   
   I suppose it comes down to the idea that "possession is 9/10ths of   
   ownership". It's also convenient for governments. Law enforcement demands   
   that these companies hand over whatever they want. The companies   
   pretend to resist. But in the end, only the customer has an interest   
   in their own rights.   
      
   > Now the above language doesn't say that for Apple so please try again to   
   > substantiate your assertion that Apple is free to do whatever they want.   
   >   
      
      :) I'm not going to substantiate anything. You're clearly a   
   starry eyed AppleSeed who will argue all day, despite any   
   amount of evidence. For people who actually want to know   
   the facts, there's plenty of info online, starting with the fine   
   by the French gov't last year because Apple was spying on   
   iPhone users without permission, for the purpose of targetted   
   ads... But of course, you didn't look that one up. If I were   
   using Apple devices, trusting their intentions, and someone   
   told me they'd been caught spying, I'd want to know the facts.   
      
   It's not my intention to argue with you or try to convert you. I   
   only post these things because if it were me, I'd want people   
   to tell me. And this is a public forum where people might come   
   across this info. And some people are not ostriches.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)