XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, alt.comp.os.windows-10, alt.pri   
   acy.anon-server   
   XPost: comp.sys.mac.advocacy   
   From: YourName@YourISP.com   
      
   On 2024-09-24 15:45:31 +0000, Newyana2 said:   
   > On 9/24/2024 9:13 AM, -hh wrote:   
   >   
   >>> "Standard data protection is the default setting for your account.   
   >>> Your iCloud data is encrypted, the encryption keys are secured in   
   >>> Apple data centers so we can help you with data recovery, and   
   >>> only certain data is end-to-end encrypted."   
   >>>   
   >>> Translation: Apple have your data.   
   >>>   
   >>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/102651   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> Except that it wasn't in contention that Apple has one's data.   
   >>   
   >   
   >    Actually this started with me using the example of online iPhone   
   > backup as an example of how people trust Apple and don't care   
   > about their privacy. Alan then said the data is encrypted. This   
   > blurb and link are simply to show that Apple does, indeed, have   
   > access to the data by default.   
   >   
   >> What was in contention was your claim that Apple is like Google, in   
   >> claiming unlimited legal rights to it  (e.g. "we can do whatever we   
   >> damn well please with your data").   
   >>   
   >   
   >    They don't need to claim. It's already legal precendent. There have   
   > been cases where courts demanded all email from a gmail customer,   
   > for example. But they don't demand it from the person. They demand   
   > it from Google. For you to put your files on their server gives them a   
   > degree of legal co-ownership. It's similar with Microsoft's online   
   > data storage or Adobe's Photoshop rental. You data is no longer   
   > completely yours once you let them hold it.   
      
   And that's no different to decades ago when you filled out a form and   
   gave it to your insurance porvider, bank, doctor, etc., etc.   
      
   If you're one of the tin-foil hat wearing loonies, then the only way to   
   get real "privacy" is to live alone and completely self-sufficient in a   
   cave in the ass-end of nowhere, hundreds of miles from the nearest   
   other person, and not use any public utilities or services.   
      
      
      
      
   >    Of course, Google claims the right to rifle through your email.   
   > Interestingly, attempts by non-gmailers to sue them over that have   
   > failed. Google's basic argument is, "Hey, everyone knows we're sleazeballs.   
   > Anyone writing an email to a gmail account can reasonably be expected   
   > to know that we're going to treat it as our property." And Google won!   
   > I suppose it comes down to the idea that "possession is 9/10ths of   
   > ownership". It's also convenient for governments. Law enforcement demands   
   > that these companies hand over whatever they want. The companies   
   > pretend to resist. But in the end, only the customer has an interest   
   > in their own rights.   
   >   
   >> Now the above language doesn't say that for Apple so please try again   
   >> to substantiate your assertion that Apple is free to do whatever they   
   >> want.   
   >>   
   >   
   >    :) I'm not going to substantiate anything. You're clearly a   
   > starry eyed AppleSeed who will argue all day, despite any   
   > amount of evidence. For people who actually want to know   
   > the facts, there's plenty of info online, starting with the fine   
   > by the French gov't last year because Apple was spying on   
   > iPhone users without permission, for the purpose of targetted   
   > ads... But of course, you didn't look that one up. If I were   
   > using Apple devices, trusting their intentions, and someone   
   > told me they'd been caught spying, I'd want to know the facts.   
   >   
   > It's not my intention to argue with you or try to convert you. I   
   > only post these things because if it were me, I'd want people   
   > to tell me. And this is a public forum where people might come   
   > across this info. And some people are not ostriches.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)