XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-10, alt.privacy.anon-server, comp.sys.mac.advocacy   
   XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone   
   From: nuh-uh@nope.com   
      
   On 2024-09-30 11:07, Tom Elam wrote:   
   > On 9/24/2024 11:45 AM, Newyana2 wrote:   
   >> On 9/24/2024 9:13 AM, -hh wrote:   
   >>   
   >>>> "Standard data protection is the default setting for your account.   
   >>>> Your iCloud data is encrypted, the encryption keys are secured in   
   >>>> Apple data centers so we can help you with data recovery, and   
   >>>> only certain data is end-to-end encrypted."   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Translation: Apple have your data.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/102651   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> Except that it wasn't in contention that Apple has one's data.   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >>    Actually this started with me using the example of online iPhone   
   >> backup as an example of how people trust Apple and don't care   
   >> about their privacy. Alan then said the data is encrypted. This   
   >> blurb and link are simply to show that Apple does, indeed, have   
   >> access to the data by default.   
   >>   
   >>> What was in contention was your claim that Apple is like Google, in   
   >>> claiming unlimited legal rights to it  (e.g. "we can do whatever we   
   >>> damn well please with your data").   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >>    They don't need to claim. It's already legal precendent. There have   
   >> been cases where courts demanded all email from a gmail customer,   
   >> for example. But they don't demand it from the person. They demand   
   >> it from Google. For you to put your files on their server gives them a   
   >> degree of legal co-ownership. It's similar with Microsoft's online   
   >> data storage or Adobe's Photoshop rental. You data is no longer   
   >> completely yours once you let them hold it.   
   >>   
   >>    Of course, Google claims the right to rifle through your email.   
   >> Interestingly, attempts by non-gmailers to sue them over that have   
   >> failed. Google's basic argument is, "Hey, everyone knows we're   
   >> sleazeballs.   
   >> Anyone writing an email to a gmail account can reasonably be expected   
   >> to know that we're going to treat it as our property." And Google won!   
   >> I suppose it comes down to the idea that "possession is 9/10ths of   
   >> ownership". It's also convenient for governments. Law enforcement demands   
   >> that these companies hand over whatever they want. The companies   
   >> pretend to resist. But in the end, only the customer has an interest   
   >> in their own rights.   
   >>   
   >>> Now the above language doesn't say that for Apple so please try again   
   >>> to substantiate your assertion that Apple is free to do whatever they   
   >>> want.   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >>    :) I'm not going to substantiate anything. You're clearly a   
   >> starry eyed AppleSeed who will argue all day, despite any   
   >> amount of evidence. For people who actually want to know   
   >> the facts, there's plenty of info online, starting with the fine   
   >> by the French gov't last year because Apple was spying on   
   >> iPhone users without permission, for the purpose of targetted   
   >> ads... But of course, you didn't look that one up. If I were   
   >> using Apple devices, trusting their intentions, and someone   
   >> told me they'd been caught spying, I'd want to know the facts.   
   >>   
   >> It's not my intention to argue with you or try to convert you. I   
   >> only post these things because if it were me, I'd want people   
   >> to tell me. And this is a public forum where people might come   
   >> across this info. And some people are not ostriches.   
   >   
   > I seem to remember an instance from some years back where a couple who   
   > had shot up some folks were turned into mincemeat by law enforcement. An   
   > iPhone of theirs survived the hail of bullets. Apple would not give the   
   > cops the encryption key. Cops had to turn to a hacker to get into the   
   > phone.   
      
   Almost like they respected their customers' privacy...   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)