XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, alt.comp.os.windows-10, alt.pri   
   acy.anon-server   
   XPost: comp.sys.mac.advocacy   
   From: YourName@YourISP.com   
      
   On 2024-09-30 18:07:45 +0000, Tom Elam said:   
   > On 9/24/2024 11:45 AM, Newyana2 wrote:   
   >> On 9/24/2024 9:13 AM, -hh wrote:   
   >>   
   >>>> "Standard data protection is the default setting for your account.   
   >>>> Your iCloud data is encrypted, the encryption keys are secured in   
   >>>> Apple data centers so we can help you with data recovery, and   
   >>>> only certain data is end-to-end encrypted."   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Translation: Apple have your data.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/102651   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> Except that it wasn't in contention that Apple has one's data.   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >>   Actually this started with me using the example of online iPhone   
   >> backup as an example of how people trust Apple and don't care   
   >> about their privacy. Alan then said the data is encrypted. This   
   >> blurb and link are simply to show that Apple does, indeed, have   
   >> access to the data by default.   
   >>   
   >>> What was in contention was your claim that Apple is like Google, in   
   >>> claiming unlimited legal rights to it  (e.g. "we can do whatever we   
   >>> damn well please with your data").   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >>   They don't need to claim. It's already legal precendent. There have   
   >> been cases where courts demanded all email from a gmail customer,   
   >> for example. But they don't demand it from the person. They demand   
   >> it from Google. For you to put your files on their server gives them a   
   >> degree of legal co-ownership. It's similar with Microsoft's online   
   >> data storage or Adobe's Photoshop rental. You data is no longer   
   >> completely yours once you let them hold it.   
   >>   
   >>   Of course, Google claims the right to rifle through your email.   
   >> Interestingly, attempts by non-gmailers to sue them over that have   
   >> failed. Google's basic argument is, "Hey, everyone knows we're sleazeballs.   
   >> Anyone writing an email to a gmail account can reasonably be expected   
   >> to know that we're going to treat it as our property." And Google won!   
   >> I suppose it comes down to the idea that "possession is 9/10ths of   
   >> ownership". It's also convenient for governments. Law enforcement demands   
   >> that these companies hand over whatever they want. The companies   
   >> pretend to resist. But in the end, only the customer has an interest   
   >> in their own rights.   
   >>   
   >>> Now the above language doesn't say that for Apple so please try again   
   >>> to substantiate your assertion that Apple is free to do whatever they   
   >>> want.   
   >>   
   >>   :) I'm not going to substantiate anything. You're clearly a   
   >> starry eyed AppleSeed who will argue all day, despite any   
   >> amount of evidence. For people who actually want to know   
   >> the facts, there's plenty of info online, starting with the fine   
   >> by the French gov't last year because Apple was spying on   
   >> iPhone users without permission, for the purpose of targetted   
   >> ads... But of course, you didn't look that one up. If I were   
   >> using Apple devices, trusting their intentions, and someone   
   >> told me they'd been caught spying, I'd want to know the facts.   
   >>   
   >> It's not my intention to argue with you or try to convert you. I   
   >> only post these things because if it were me, I'd want people   
   >> to tell me. And this is a public forum where people might come   
   >> across this info. And some people are not ostriches.   
   >   
   > I seem to remember an instance from some years back where a couple who   
   > had shot up some folks were turned into mincemeat by law enforcement.   
   > An iPhone of theirs survived the hail of bullets. Apple would not give   
   > the cops the encryption key. Cops had to turn to a hacker to get into   
   > the phone.   
      
   Apple can not give anyone access to someone else's device. Apple stores   
   the user's *public key* on their servers, but the user *private key* is   
   stored on the device itself. There's no way for Apple to access that   
   private key, even if they wanted to ... despite what the brainless   
   numbnut trolls and conspiracy nutters like "Newyana2" want to   
   idiotically believe.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)