From: marion@facts.com   
      
   On Thu, 7 Aug 2025 13:09:50 -0700, Mike Easter wrote :   
      
      
   > Completely free anonymity on the internet comes at a price to someone.   
      
   All your points are valid.   
      
   I think there are free services which are truly free, just as I received a   
   handful of phones from T-Mobile which turned out to be (almost) free.   
   I had to pay the 10% California imputed sales tax on the free phone.   
     A32-5G & iPhone 12 contract   
     $15/mo iPhone,$0/mo Android   
     $100 for 6 lines + $16 fees   
      
   Speaking of paying taxes on imputed costs for free things, Amazon picked me   
   for Vine Gold for the reason that I own critical thought processes, but,   
   those free products also come at a cost since you have to pay income taxes.   
       
       
       
       
      
   My point is that we have to weigh each and every "free" item to see what   
   the "true" cost is of that free item - where loss of privacy is a cost.   
      
   > Various providers who can 'easily' accommodate anonymity w/ their   
   > services do so for whatever their own 'personal' reasons. Free/open   
   > NSPs, free mail2news, a 'certain amount' of free VPN, free tor.   
      
   Well, people do "volunteer" to be VPN servers & TOR servers, although I'm   
   sure every TLA in the book also volunteers to be those free servers too!   
      
   Lots of free VPNs out there, for example...   
   Lots of free NNTP servers too.   
   Certainly lots of free web browsers.   
   And lots of free browser extensions.   
      
   Each one we'd have to look at in detail to find out the true cost to us.   
      
   > There's not much (hardly any) free connectivity; there used to be a free   
   > local dialup provider but that went away, there is some free wifi and it   
   > is possible to 'steal' some wifi.   
      
   I used NetZero until they started charging around the turn of the century.   
   They're still in business.  But the era of free unlimited ISP is over.   
   Still... I use Google Voice (on iOS. NEVER ON ANDROID!) for free calls.   
      
   Sidenote: Given iOS has the worst privacy of any mobile device, it's   
   interesting that Google Voice has more privacy on iOS than on Android.   
      
   This goes to show that with privacy, we have to look at each situation.   
   Only after diving deeply into each situation can we assess true costs.   
      
   > So, given that it is likely /easier/ to anonymize payment, it is   
   > /perhaps/ easier to anonymize one's whole persona at a relatively low   
   > cost, than to try to get some kind of 'perfect' free anonymity online.   
      
   I think this is a worthwhile endeavor to create a "burner persona" which   
   can "pay for things" on the net. The problem is how to buy with crypto?   
      
   I don't know how.   
   Do you?   
      
   It would be a worthwhile DIY tutorial for how to buy Mozilla extensions   
   using a burner persona, with burner email & burner crypto currency.   
      
   I'm not the guy to write it as I've never used crypto in my life.   
   I don't even know the first step.   
      
   Do you?   
      
   > I'm frugal, but I'm also practical. I'm also a skeptic; watch out for   
   > those who are providing you a free product, you may BE the product.   
      
   As I said above, the Apple religious zealots always tell me there must have   
   been a catch with my free Android phones, and yet, I still have that phone   
   which T-Mobile gave me for free in April of 2021 (they gave everyone in the   
   USA on postpaid accounts the same choice that I had for the free phone).   
      
   I paid the California sales tax on the MSRP and that was the only cost.   
   People can't believe it. But this only goes to show my point about free.   
      
   Every single situation where something is free is different in costs.   
   You have to look at each and every situation to find if there is a cost.   
      
   Anyone who makes blanket statements such as "you are the product" doesn't   
   understand those costs, since you're the product anyway, e.g., if you don't   
   put "optout" (in the past) or "nomap" today on the end of your AP SSID.   
      
   Even if you broadcast your SSID, then you are the product since wardrivers   
   don't care about your SSID having an optout parameter in the name.   
      
   Privacy is much like hygiene. It's not one thing. It's a lot of things.   
   Each comes with a cost. But the cost is different for each action you take.   
      
   Since people like truisms such as "you are the product", my favorite truism   
   is "only intelligent people have privacy", which underscores my point that   
   every situation is different when it comes to being private on the net.   
      
   In summary, all your privacy points are valid where what would be a great   
   outcome is if someone wrote a DIY for making a Mozilla-based web browser as   
   private as possible (with or without registration/payment privacy issues).   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)