From: user6340@newsgrouper.org.invalid
Mike posted:
> On 2026-01-01 13:27, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > Mike posted:
> >> On 2025-12-31 16:00, Steven Douglas wrote:
> >>> Mike posted:
> >>>> On 2025-12-31 13:46, Steven Douglas wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm not claiming that the following is proof of Jesus,
> >>>>> but I am claiming that it is some very good evidence
> >>>>> of the existence of Jesus.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There are many references to the coming Jesus in the
> >>>>> Old Testament, especially in the Book of Isaiah. Here
> >>>>> are a few examples:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Isaiah 7:14: "Therefore the Lord himself will give you
> >>>>> a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son,
> >>>>> and will call him Immanuel [God with us]".
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Isaiah 9:6: "For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son
> >>>>> is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder.
> >>>>> And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty
> >>>>> God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Isaiah 53:5: "But He was pierced for our transgressions,
> >>>>> He was crushed for our iniquities; the chastisement for
> >>>>> our peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There are other examples in other books of the Old Testament,
> >>>>> but this one is particularly noteworthy:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Proverbs 30:4: "Who has ascended into heaven and descended?
> >>>>> Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has wrapped the
> >>>>> waters in His garment? Who has established all the ends of
> >>>>> the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son’s name?
> >>>>> Surely you know!"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The following is from Moses, as he told the people that
> >>>>> there would be another prophet after him:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Deuteronomy 18:15: "The Lord your God will raise up for
> >>>>> you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers —
> >>>>> it is to Him you shall listen."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So those are just a few examples of the many references to
> >>>>> Jesus that appear in the Old Testament. During the time that
> >>>>> Jesus lived, and while he never left the Holy Land during
> >>>>> His three-year ministry, Jesus knew that the Gospel would
> >>>>> be preached throughout the world as the End Times approached
> >>>>> (as He claimed in Matthew 24:14),
> >>>>>
> >>>>> How could He have known that His ministry (conducted entirely
> >>>>> in one tiny part of the world) would become known throughout
> >>>>> the world -- unless He really is who He said he is?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> After the three-year ministry of Jesus was concluded, much
> >>>>> was written about Jesus in the ensuing years -- and those
> >>>>> writings are not confined to the Gospel accounts. There
> >>>>> are several high-profile secular historians who wrote about
> >>>>> Jesus. In doing so, they confirmed that Jesus was a real
> >>>>> person and a historical figure. Here are some examples:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Tacitus, a first century Roman politician and historian
> >>>>> who was not friendly to Christians or Christianity. In
> >>>>> his writings titled "Annals", he wrote that Jesus was
> >>>>> executed by Pontius Pilate. Why would a Roman politician
> >>>>> and historian waste time writing about a supposed "myth"
> >>>>> (unless Jesus was real), when Rome was concerned about
> >>>>> the growing popularity of Christianity and wanted to
> >>>>> crush it?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Pliny the Younger, a first century Roman governor (in
> >>>>> what is today northern Turkey), who wrote to Emperor
> >>>>> Trajan asking how he should deal with the growing number
> >>>>> of Christians. He stated his concern that they worshipped
> >>>>> "Christ as a god." Obviously something real was happening,
> >>>>> not just some random "myth".
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Suetonius, a first century Roman biographer who was also
> >>>>> not a friend of Christianity. He wrote about disturbances
> >>>>> in Rome among Jews who were divided over Jesus. The early
> >>>>> Christians were, of course, Jews -- as was Jesus. Suetonius
> >>>>> wrote that these disturbances were caused by "Chrestus"
> >>>>> (meaning Christ).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And probably the best known of the secular sources who
> >>>>> documented the existence of Jesus is Flavius Josephus, a
> >>>>> first century Jewish historian who wrote about Jesus in
> >>>>> "Antiquities of the Jews". There are claims that some of
> >>>>> his writing may have been tampered with -- but what is
> >>>>> undisputed is that he DID write about Jesus as a historical
> >>>>> figure.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There are other examples of secular historians who wrote
> >>>>> about Jesus, but I'll stop here for now to keep this from
> >>>>> getting too long. But anyone who cares to really study this
> >>>>> topic will soon realize that there is enough evidence of
> >>>>> the existence of Jesus from secular sources (in addition
> >>>>> to the Gospels themselves) that make it difficult to
> >>>>> believe that Jesus was merely a "myth".
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 1. Old Testament “prophecies”
> >>>> - Isaiah 7:14 (“virgin will conceive”) uses
> >>>> Hebrew word *almah*, meaning “young woman,”
> >>>> not necessarily “virgin.”
> >>>
> >>> The word "almah" appears elsewhere in the Old Testament in
> >>> the context of virginity. But nevertheless, however the word
> >>> is translated in Isaiah 7:14, what remains is that a young
> >>> woman will conceive and give birth to a son who will be called
> >>> Immanuel (God with us).
> >>>>
> >>>> - Isaiah 53 may refer to Israel collectively, not a single
> >>>> messianic figure.
> >>>
> >>> He was pierced for our transgressions, along with all of
> >>> us being healed by his wounds. It's clearly referring to
> >>> the crucifixion of Jesus.
> >>>>
> >>>> - Many passages are interpreted *after the fact* to match
> >>>> Jesus’ life.
> >>>
> >>> Give some examples.
> >>>>
> >>>> 2. Jesus’ knowledge of worldwide ministry
> >>>> - Claims in Matthew 24:14 are faith-based, not independently
> >>>> verifiable.
> >>>> - Statements could have been written after Christianity spread.
> >>>
> >>> Sheesh, the Gospels were not preached worldwide when the
> >>> earliest transcripts of Matthew 24 were written. I am
> >>> constantly amazed at the lengths people (and dumb AI
> >>> things) will go to try to deny the obvious.
> >>>>
> >>>> 3. Secular historical evidence
> >>>> - Tacitus (~116 AD) mentions Christ,
> >>>
> >>> Yes, he did. That was my point.
> >>>>
> >>>> but relies on hearsay;
> >>>
> >>> So what? He was not a friend of Christianity, so would
> >>> he have put his reputation on the line for a "myth", or
> >>> would he have been fairly certain of the source of his
> >>> information before writing about Jesus?
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