From: theirony2013@gmail.com   
      
   On 2026-01-01 16:39, Steven Douglas wrote:   
   >   
   > Mike  posted:   
   >> On 2026-01-01 13:27, Steven Douglas wrote:   
   >>> Mike  posted:   
   >>>> On 2025-12-31 16:00, Steven Douglas wrote:   
   >>>>> Mike  posted:   
   >>>>>> On 2025-12-31 13:46, Steven Douglas wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> I'm not claiming that the following is proof of Jesus,   
   >>>>>>> but I am claiming that it is some very good evidence   
   >>>>>>> of the existence of Jesus.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> There are many references to the coming Jesus in the   
   >>>>>>> Old Testament, especially in the Book of Isaiah. Here   
   >>>>>>> are a few examples:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Isaiah 7:14: "Therefore the Lord himself will give you   
   >>>>>>> a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son,   
   >>>>>>> and will call him Immanuel [God with us]".   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Isaiah 9:6: "For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son   
   >>>>>>> is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder.   
   >>>>>>> And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty   
   >>>>>>> God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Isaiah 53:5: "But He was pierced for our transgressions,   
   >>>>>>> He was crushed for our iniquities; the chastisement for   
   >>>>>>> our peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed."   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> There are other examples in other books of the Old Testament,   
   >>>>>>> but this one is particularly noteworthy:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Proverbs 30:4: "Who has ascended into heaven and descended?   
   >>>>>>> Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has wrapped the   
   >>>>>>> waters in His garment? Who has established all the ends of   
   >>>>>>> the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son’s name?   
   >>>>>>> Surely you know!"   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> The following is from Moses, as he told the people that   
   >>>>>>> there would be another prophet after him:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Deuteronomy 18:15: "The Lord your God will raise up for   
   >>>>>>> you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers —   
   >>>>>>> it is to Him you shall listen."   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> So those are just a few examples of the many references to   
   >>>>>>> Jesus that appear in the Old Testament. During the time that   
   >>>>>>> Jesus lived, and while he never left the Holy Land during   
   >>>>>>> His three-year ministry, Jesus knew that the Gospel would   
   >>>>>>> be preached throughout the world as the End Times approached   
   >>>>>>> (as He claimed in Matthew 24:14),   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> How could He have known that His ministry (conducted entirely   
   >>>>>>> in one tiny part of the world) would become known throughout   
   >>>>>>> the world -- unless He really is who He said he is?   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> After the three-year ministry of Jesus was concluded, much   
   >>>>>>> was written about Jesus in the ensuing years -- and those   
   >>>>>>> writings are not confined to the Gospel accounts. There   
   >>>>>>> are several high-profile secular historians who wrote about   
   >>>>>>> Jesus. In doing so, they confirmed that Jesus was a real   
   >>>>>>> person and a historical figure. Here are some examples:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Tacitus, a first century Roman politician and historian   
   >>>>>>> who was not friendly to Christians or Christianity. In   
   >>>>>>> his writings titled "Annals", he wrote that Jesus was   
   >>>>>>> executed by Pontius Pilate. Why would a Roman politician   
   >>>>>>> and historian waste time writing about a supposed "myth"   
   >>>>>>> (unless Jesus was real), when Rome was concerned about   
   >>>>>>> the growing popularity of Christianity and wanted to   
   >>>>>>> crush it?   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Pliny the Younger, a first century Roman governor (in   
   >>>>>>> what is today northern Turkey), who wrote to Emperor   
   >>>>>>> Trajan asking how he should deal with the growing number   
   >>>>>>> of Christians. He stated his concern that they worshipped   
   >>>>>>> "Christ as a god." Obviously something real was happening,   
   >>>>>>> not just some random "myth".   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Suetonius, a first century Roman biographer who was also   
   >>>>>>> not a friend of Christianity. He wrote about disturbances   
   >>>>>>> in Rome among Jews who were divided over Jesus. The early   
   >>>>>>> Christians were, of course, Jews -- as was Jesus. Suetonius   
   >>>>>>> wrote that these disturbances were caused by "Chrestus"   
   >>>>>>> (meaning Christ).   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> And probably the best known of the secular sources who   
   >>>>>>> documented the existence of Jesus is Flavius Josephus, a   
   >>>>>>> first century Jewish historian who wrote about Jesus in   
   >>>>>>> "Antiquities of the Jews". There are claims that some of   
   >>>>>>> his writing may have been tampered with -- but what is   
   >>>>>>> undisputed is that he DID write about Jesus as a historical   
   >>>>>>> figure.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> There are other examples of secular historians who wrote   
   >>>>>>> about Jesus, but I'll stop here for now to keep this from   
   >>>>>>> getting too long. But anyone who cares to really study this   
   >>>>>>> topic  will soon realize that there is enough evidence of   
   >>>>>>> the existence of Jesus from secular sources (in addition   
   >>>>>>> to the Gospels themselves) that make it difficult to   
   >>>>>>> believe that Jesus was merely a "myth".   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>    
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> 1. Old Testament “prophecies”   
   >>>>>>         - Isaiah 7:14 (“virgin will conceive”) uses   
   >>>>>>           Hebrew word *almah*, meaning “young woman,”   
   >>>>>>           not necessarily “virgin.”   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> The word "almah" appears elsewhere in the Old Testament in   
   >>>>> the context of virginity. But nevertheless, however the word   
   >>>>> is translated in Isaiah 7:14, what remains is that a young   
   >>>>> woman will conceive and give birth to a son who will be called   
   >>>>> Immanuel (God with us).   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>         - Isaiah 53 may refer to Israel collectively, not a single   
   >>>>>>           messianic figure.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> He was pierced for our transgressions, along with all of   
   >>>>> us being healed by his wounds. It's clearly referring to   
   >>>>> the crucifixion of Jesus.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>         - Many passages are interpreted *after the fact* to match   
   >>>>>>           Jesus’ life.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Give some examples.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> 2. Jesus’ knowledge of worldwide ministry   
   >>>>>>         - Claims in Matthew 24:14 are faith-based, not independently   
   >>>>>>           verifiable.   
   >>>>>>         - Statements could have been written after Christianity spread.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Sheesh, the Gospels were not preached worldwide when the   
   >>>>> earliest transcripts of Matthew 24 were written. I am   
   >>>>> constantly amazed at the lengths people (and dumb AI   
   >>>>> things) will go to try to deny the obvious.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> 3. Secular historical evidence   
      
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