XPost: alt.bible, alt.religion.christian.biblestudy, alt.religion.christianity
XPost: alt.christnet.christianlife, alt.religion.christian.catholic
From: Robert@none.non
On May 3, 2023, James wrote
(in article):
> On Wed, 3 May 2023 09:39:23 +1000, Michael McLean
> wrote:
>
> > On 2/05/2023 11:08 pm, James wrote:
> > > On Mon, 1 May 2023 09:45:18 +1000, Michael McLean
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 1/05/2023 5:34 am, James wrote:
> > > > > On 26 Apr 2023 18:03:38 GMT, servant wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > In the same way these examples of "seeing God" are explained:
> > > > > > Genesis 32:30
> > > > > > Job 42:5)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Friend james asks ffor our help understanding:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > (3) How can you explain it?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Exodus 33:11 And Jehovah spake unto Moses face to face, as a man
> > > > > > > speaketh unto his friend...
> > > > > > Answer, see in what context this happened, and was His face
present to
> > > > > > physically behold?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yet the Bible says:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Exodus 33:20 But He said, "You cannot see My face, for no man
can see
> > > > > > > Me and live!"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > See the Job and Exodus above.>
> > > > > > > You are going to have to get a spiritual shovel and do some
serious
> > > > > > > Bible digging on this one.
> > > >
> > > > James W wrote:
> > > > > -- Revised Standard
> > > > > Genesis 32:30 So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying,
> > > > > "For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life is preserved."
> > > > >
> > > > > - Revised Standard
> > > > > Job 42:5 I had heard of thee by the hearing of the ear, but now my
> > > > > eye sees thee;
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Then is God a liar at Ex 33:20? That will never happen because God
> > > > > CANNOT lie.(Titus 1:2)
> > > > >
> > > > > Neither Jacob nor Job actually saw God. Can you look directly at the
> > > > > sun without damaging your eyes? Better yet, if you were 20 feet from
> > > > > the sun, could you look at it? Well, God is a zillion times greater!
> > > > > And they would be instantly vaporized.
> > > >
> > > > True.
> > > >
> > > > If any man in the flesh had seen God with their literal eyes in the Old
> > > > Testament, he would have been fried on the spot - even to touch
> > > > something holy (Uzzah and the Ark). Interestingly, one could assume
> > > > that in the New Testament one can't see God literally with our yet
> > > > corruptible bodies also. Which again is interesting, in that I have
> > > > heard a number of preachers say over the years that Jesus walked into
my
> > > > room.:O).
> >
> > James wrote:
> > > Assuming what they said was true (that's a big ASSUME), Jesus is not
> > > God, so they saw God's Son, for Jesus was created by God:
> >
> > Impossible.
>
> Not only possible, but the Bible declares it.
>
> -- King James
> Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn
> of every creature:
> >
> > This is very interesting, for when the Lord pushes me into a seeming
> > contradiction (from what I have said), it is always because He is
> > revealing some more truth. The Lord is always revealing truth, anyway,
> > but I mean in regard to the present context.
> >
> > What you should have said was, "How was it possible for men to see the
> > Lord Jesus Christ (pre and post-resurrection) if He is God?" How about
> > you assume now Jesus IS God and how would you explain it?
>
> I can't, since I have to go by the Holy Scriptures
OK, here is what the scripture says.
“We proclaim to you the one who existed from the beginning, whom we have
heard and seen. We saw him with our own eyes and touched him with our own
hands. He is the Word of life. This one who is life itself was revealed to us,
and we have seen him. And now we testify and proclaim to you that he is the one
who is eternal life. He was with the Father, and then he was revealed to us. We
proclaim to you what we ourselves have actually seen and heard so that you may
have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his
Son, Jesus Christ. We are writing these things so that you may fully share our
joy.” (1Jn 1:1-4)
And here,...
“In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the
Word was God. He existed in the beginning with God. God created everything
through him, and nothing was created except through him. The Word gave life to
everything that was created, and his life brought light to everyone.” (Joh
1:1-4)
Plus here he says it plainly for all to see, "I am the one who is, who always
was, and who is still to come—the Almighty One.”
Rev 1:4-8
4 This letter is from John to the seven churches in the province of Asia. Grace
and peace to you from the one who is, who always was, and who is still to come;
from the sevenfold Spirit before his throne;
5 and from Jesus Christ. He is the faithful witness to these things, the first
to rise from the dead, and the ruler of all the kings of the world. All glory
to him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by shedding his blood for
us.
6 He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father. All glory and power
to him forever and ever! Amen.
7 Look! He comes with the clouds of heaven. And everyone will see him—even
those who pierced him. And all the nations of the world will mourn for him.
Yes! Amen!
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega—the beginning and the end,” says the Lord
God. “I am the one who is, who always was, and who is still to come—the
Almighty One.”
Are you going to deny these scriptures like all the truth in the others?
>
> >
> > I know the answer, but what usually happens is I explain these sorts of
> > the things and people usually, go "meh", and just piss it up against the
> > urinal. So, your turn. If you can "big assume" above about those men
> > actually seeing the Lord, how about you "big assume" Jesus is God and
> > try to explain them seeing Him with physical eyes in the Scriptures?
>
> If Jesus was God, there was a lot of dead apostles back then. As well
> as the crowds who followed him.
> >
> > Hey, what is good for the goose is good for the gander, if you can grasp
> > why I said that?
>
> My poor brain can't figure out your point. By sticking to the Bible,
> it does make sense.
>
> >
> > Here is a lead in, what caused us to separated from God,
>
> Sin and death.
>
> > what happened
> > on the cross,
>
> You mean on the stake. (Greek word is "stauros")
>
> > and what happened to veil of temple,
> > and what did that
> > signify?
>
[continued in next message]
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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