XPost: alt.bible, alt.religion.christian.biblestudy, alt.religion.christianity
XPost: alt.christnet.christianlife, alt.religion.christian.catholic
From: michaelmclean2021@outlook.com
On 5/05/2023 10:46 pm, James wrote:
> On Thu, 4 May 2023 09:28:47 +1000, Michael McLean
> wrote:
>
>> On 4/05/2023 6:37 am, James wrote:
>>> On Wed, 3 May 2023 09:39:23 +1000, Michael McLean
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/05/2023 11:08 pm, James wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 1 May 2023 09:45:18 +1000, Michael McLean
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/05/2023 5:34 am, James wrote:
>>>>>>> On 26 Apr 2023 18:03:38 GMT, servant wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the same way these examples of "seeing God" are explained:
>>>>>>>> Genesis 32:30
>>>>>>>> Job 42:5)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Friend james asks ffor our help understanding:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (3) How can you explain it?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Exodus 33:11 And Jehovah spake unto Moses face to face, as a man
>>>>>>>>> speaketh unto his friend...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Answer, see in what context this happened, and was His face present to
>>>>>>>> physically behold?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yet the Bible says:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Exodus 33:20 But He said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can
see
>>>>>>>>> Me and live!"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> See the Job and Exodus above.>
>>>>>>>>> You are going to have to get a spiritual shovel and do some serious
>>>>>>>>> Bible digging on this one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> James W wrote:
>>>>>>> -- Revised Standard
>>>>>>> Genesis 32:30 So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying,
>>>>>>> "For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life is preserved."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Revised Standard
>>>>>>> Job 42:5 I had heard of thee by the hearing of the ear, but now my
>>>>>>> eye sees thee;
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then is God a liar at Ex 33:20? That will never happen because God
>>>>>>> CANNOT lie.(Titus 1:2)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Neither Jacob nor Job actually saw God. Can you look directly at the
>>>>>>> sun without damaging your eyes? Better yet, if you were 20 feet from
>>>>>>> the sun, could you look at it? Well, God is a zillion times greater!
>>>>>>> And they would be instantly vaporized.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> True.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If any man in the flesh had seen God with their literal eyes in the Old
>>>>>> Testament, he would have been fried on the spot - even to touch
>>>>>> something holy (Uzzah and the Ark). Interestingly, one could assume
>>>>>> that in the New Testament one can't see God literally with our yet
>>>>>> corruptible bodies also. Which again is interesting, in that I have
>>>>>> heard a number of preachers say over the years that Jesus walked into my
>>>>>> room. :O).
>>>>
>>>> James wrote:
>>>>> Assuming what they said was true (that's a big ASSUME), Jesus is not
>>>>> God, so they saw God's Son, for Jesus was created by God:
>>>>
>>>> Impossible.
>>>
>>> Not only possible, but the Bible declares it.
>>>
>>> -- King James
>>> Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn
>>> of every creature:
>>>>
>>>> This is very interesting, for when the Lord pushes me into a seeming
>>>> contradiction (from what I have said), it is always because He is
>>>> revealing some more truth. The Lord is always revealing truth, anyway,
>>>> but I mean in regard to the present context.
>>>>
>>>> What you should have said was, "How was it possible for men to see the
>>>> Lord Jesus Christ (pre and post-resurrection) if He is God?" How about
>>>> you assume now Jesus IS God and how would you explain it?
>>>
>>> I can't, since I have to go by the Holy Scriptures
>>>>
>>>> I know the answer, but what usually happens is I explain these sorts of
>>>> the things and people usually, go "meh", and just piss it up against the
>>>> urinal. So, your turn. If you can "big assume" above about those men
>>>> actually seeing the Lord, how about you "big assume" Jesus is God and
>>>> try to explain them seeing Him with physical eyes in the Scriptures?
>>>
>>> If Jesus was God, there was a lot of dead apostles back then. As well
>>> as the crowds who followed him.
>>>>
>>>> Hey, what is good for the goose is good for the gander, if you can grasp
>>>> why I said that?
>>>
>>> My poor brain can't figure out your point. By sticking to the Bible,
>>> it does make sense.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here is a lead in, what caused us to separated from God,
>>>
>>> Sin and death.
>>>
>>>
>>>> what happened
>>>> on the cross,
>>>
>>> You mean on the stake. (Greek word is "stauros")
>>>
>>>> and what happened to veil of temple,
>>>> and what did that
>>>> signify?
>>>
>>> It was split down the middle. To me it represented a cutting off of
>>> Jews as being God's chosen people.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -- Revised Standard.
>>>>> Colossians 1:15 HE IS the image of the invisible God, the first-born
>>>>> of all creation;
>>>>
>>>> First realise, God's image is eternal. He does not change, not
>>>> yesterday, not today, not forever.
>>>
>>> Tell something I don't know.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> We were MADE in God's image, the Lord Jesus Christ IS the ETERNAL image
>>>> of the invisible God, yesterday, today, and forever, and through Him is
>>>> the way, the truth, and the life.
>>>
>>> The Bible shows the difference.
>>> Jesus was CREATED. (Col 1:15) NOTICE THE CONTEXT. It is all about
>>> things being born. And Jesus died.
>>>
>>> But God always lived.:
>>>
>>> -- New King James
>>> Psalms 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, Or ever You had
>>> formed the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting,
>>> You are God.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Note: "Through Him", not "because" of Him. Only God can save, only God
>>>> is the Saviour.
>>>
>>> The Bible also refers to Jesus (God's Son) as a savior.God gave Jesus
>>> the power to save also.
>>>>
>>>> And, goodness gracious, you did the Lord a great disservice by not
>>>> finishing that quote...
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and
>>>> that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or
>>>> dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him,
>>>> and for him:
>>>> Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
>>>
>>> Yes, God had Jesus assist Him in the creations. That is why Genesis
>>> says "We"
>>>>
>>>> God did not "made His image," Buddy.
>>>
>>> ??
>>>>
>>>> He always was.
>>>
>>> Yes, that is what I showed you above.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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