XPost: alt.bible, alt.religion.christian.biblestudy, alt.religion.christianity   
   XPost: alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic   
   From: seaviews7@yahoo.com   
      
   On 6/23/2023 1:46 PM, No one scribbled:   
   > On Jun 23, 2023, servant wrote   
   > (in article<6495d0a4$0$2245$1c4686b2@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>):   
   >   
   >> Friend james proposes a theory:>   
   >>   
   >>> No one went to a confessional by the first century Christians.   
   >>   
   >> Correct, one by one individuals stood before the congregation for public   
   >> confession/absolution of their sins in the early church.   
   >   
   > No proof of that shown.   
   >>   
   >> How does the jw vatican prescribe practicing confession/absolution and on   
   >> what authority?   
   >>   
   >> 1 John says all blievers sin and confession of the sin is the cure. He   
   >> adds if someone says they do not sin; they are a liar.   
   >   
   > Confessing is not a cure. That is pretty obvious to everyone.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> As for who has the authority of absolution scripture declares:   
   >>   
   >> In the Gospel of John, Jesus says to the Apostles, after being raised from   
   >> the dead, "Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive, they are   
   >> forgiven; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained".   
   >   
   > That verse is also out of character and out of place. since on its face a   
   > person who was not Born Again could conceivably be forgiven against their   
   > will, against Gods will, and whether or not the person actually asked for it.   
   > That is not in conformity with any other part of scripture, especially when a   
   > person sins against or blasphemes the Holy Spirit. The only possible other   
   > explanation would be if a brother sinned agains them, could they forgive,   
   > similar to Peter asking Jesus about how many times should he forgives someone   
   > who offends them.   
   >   
   > Nowhere in the Book of Acts or in the Epistles do we find any instance of an   
   > apostle remitting the sins of anyone. They do go everywhere, proclaiming the   
   > forgiveness of sins. Let me ask the question: What is it that forgives sins?   
   > Even God cannot just arbitrarily forgive sins. Forgiveness of sins is only   
   > and alone through the blood of Jesus Christ. Back in the Old Testament, the   
   > forgiveness of sins was based on the fact that Christ would come and die. God   
   > saved “on credit†in the Old Testament until Christ would come and   
   > pay the penalty. Today God forgives our sins when we believe that Christ died   
   > for them.   
   >   
   > Also, there is a lame argument that people such as you use, in that this was   
   > spoken by the Lord to the Apostles. Your argument would then typically claim   
   > that it was to them alone and no one else. You all have used that argument   
   > many times for other similar points.   
   >   
   > So which is it?   
   >   
   >>   
   >> In the line of apostolic succession and for the church established by   
   >> Christ; a priest as the srvant and on behalf of his bishop can excersize   
   >> that authority.   
   >   
   > This was not assigned to a position of leadership. Specific or otherwise.   
   > There is NO "line of apostolic succession". That is totally unscriptural. No   
   > priest could ever forgive sins against God, not in the Old Testament, or the   
   > New.   
   >   
   > Mar 2:10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to   
   > forgivesins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)   
   >   
   > Jas 5:13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing   
   > psalms.   
   >   
   > Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church;   
   > and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:   
   >   
   > Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall   
   > raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.   
   >   
   > Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that   
   > ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth   
   > much.   
   >   
   > Notice who it is that forgives here, it is the Lord.   
   >   
   > Any man can forgive those that sin against them, "Let it not be held against   
   > them", we are commanded to forgive those who sin against us.   
   >   
   >>   
   >> That doctrine includes the lutheran and anglican churchs among protestants.   
   >> Other protestants have a general confession/absolution, ie. it is done by   
   >> the congregation as a whole in the presence of the pastor.   
   >   
   > Then show examples of that, and also show scriptural support for such a thing   
   > as you describe.   
   >   
      
   what a foul book you use full of changed words.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)