XPost: alt.bible, alt.religion.christian.biblestudy, alt.religion.christianity   
   XPost: alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic   
   From: none@none.con   
      
   On Jul 23, 2023, James wrote   
   (in article<3cbqbi91db941p0pek6b245htvrbf684sn@4ax.com>):   
      
   > On 28 Jun 2023 18:44:14 GMT, servant wrote:   
   >   
   > > > > Speaking of Christ; the founder of what was to become the jw vatican   
   > > > > pointed in part to the "3 wise men" as illustration of the worship of   
   > > > > Christ:   
   > > > >   
   > > > > "It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He   
   > > > > repeatedly spoke of Himself as having come down from heaven, and   
   because   
   > > > > He, though passing through trial and sorrow as a man, was yet   
   possessed of   
   > > > > the authority and exercised the prerogatives of a God.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > He was the object of   
   > > > > unreproved worship even when a babe, by the wise men who came to see   
   > > > > the new-born King. Matt. 2:2-11. Even the angels delighted to do Him   
   > > > > honor.   
   > > > > "When He bringeth the first-begotten into the world, He saith, "And   
   > > > > let all the angels of God worship Him." Heb. 1:6.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > He never reproved any one for acts of worship offered to Himself, but   
   when   
   > > > > Cornelius offered such service to Peter--the leading apostle-- "he took   
   > > > > him   
   > > > > up, saying, stand up; I myself also am a man." .... Had Christ not been   
   > > > > more than a man the same reason would have prevented from receiving   
   > > > > worship...."   
   > > > >   
   > > > > Zion's Watch Tower   
   > > > > 1880 Oct pp.2-3   
   >   
   > You are quoting words written 143 years ago. Surly you can do better   
   > than that!   
   >   
   > > Friend james tries a failed excuse, that in fact exposes jw vatican'   
   > > duplicity: , see below:   
   > >   
   > > > You missed things in 1880. JW's used to smoke.They also used to join   
   > > > the military, etc. And likely celebrated the holidays.They have   
   > > > prgressed by following this Scripture:>   
   > >   
   > > > (Proverbs 4:18) But the path of the righteous is like the bright   
   > > > morning light That grows brighter and brighter until full daylight.   
   > > As multiplle times now, that excuse flops as scripture provides. The verse   
   > > before and the one following define what becomes "brighter", it is the   
   > > spiritual life of the righteous. The context of the 3 verses is the   
   > > contrast between those righteous and those evil.   
   >   
   > Yes, and it fits right in with the progress of JW's.   
   >   
   > >   
   > > Now where oh wheree can the jw vatican's use of scripture excuse their   
   > > continuing flip flopping on doctrines? That flip flop happened in 1954   
   > > long after the founding mentioned above. One week worship was ample at the   
   > > "hall", the next week it ceased because the jw vatican said He was suddenly   
   > > not rorthy of worship.   
   >   
   > I thank God that I am in a religion that isn't afraid to correct   
   > itself. We only want the Bible truth. And that is what God seeks in   
   > us.   
   >   
   > (John 4:23, 24) Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when   
   > the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth,   
   > for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him.   
   > 24God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit   
   > and truth.”   
   >   
   > I am sorry your church hasn't progressed by correcting any false   
   > doctrines such as evolution, hellfire, the Trinity, Jesus is God, etc,   
   > etc.   
   >   
   > >   
   > > > JW's today do no   
   > > t worship   
   > > > Jesus because he was CREATED by god.(Col 1:15) One doesn't worship the   
   > > > creation, but rather the ONE who created, Jehovah God. (Ps 83:18)   
   > >   
   > > Did you spot the snake biting til logical distortion there? One must first   
   > > accept Him being 'created" beforr mentioning worship of creation.   
   >   
   > That is what the Bible teaches. It is a shame that you don't accept   
   > all of the Bible.   
   >   
   > >   
   > > John   
   > > 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that   
   > > whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.   
   > >   
   > > The greek word given as "begotten" means either one of a relationship or   
   > > of a unique kind.   
   >   
   > Yes, God created Jesus as a "unique kind".   
   >   
   > (Colossians 1:15) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn   
   > of all creation;   
      
   “Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:”   
   (Col 1:15)   
      
   2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things   
   are passed away; behold, all things are become new.   
      
   Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor   
   uncircumcision, but a new creature.   
      
   You should be able to see here that a firstborn is a creature, not a   
   creation. Living beings are creatures.   
      
   The verse you quoted says that Jesus the Messiah is the first of all   
   creation, which would mean that before Heaven and the shapeless blob were   
   created, Jesus was. And the Bible clearly states that Men were created as a   
   creature. That Adam was the First man. A living creature.   
      
   >   
   > Look at the context. It is discussing things that are CREATED. And   
   > Jesus was the first..   
      
   See that devious little twist, a symbol of things satanic? "Jesus was the   
   first"? When it clearly states "Firstborn" Then, here to is the kicker, that   
   destroys the JW doctrines. Which even you alluded to as the supporting and   
   defining contextual verses surround it.   
      
   “For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in   
   earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or   
   principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:”   
   (Col 1:16)   
      
   Thus here is the direct reference to Jehovah, "for by him were all things   
   created".   
      
   And to drive the nail in the coffin of the JW's the distinction between   
   Jehovah/Jesus is made in the verses following.   
      
   Col 1:17-19   
      
   17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.   
      
   18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the   
   firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.   
      
   19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;   
      
   Yes, there it is, clearly and plainly Spoken. Jesus/Jehovah is him in whom   
   all fulness dwells.   
      
   Thus the doctrines of the JW are shown to be false, based on false premises,   
   and also shows that Satan by the spirit of the antichrist uses scripture, the   
   Word of God, today as he did in the garden of Eden before Eve.   
      
   >   
   >   
   > Sincerely James   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)