XPost: alt.bible, alt.religion.christian.biblestudy, alt.religion.christianity   
   XPost: alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, alt.christnet.christianlife   
      
   How does friend james take the evidence, he helps me:   
      
   >>The jw vatican dlaims the church in the first part of the 4th century   
   >>changed the shape of the cross from being a pole to the familiar shape with   
   >>a pole having a crossbar.   
   >>   
   >>Very very good, that claim is easily tested in history.  When did the first   
   >>writings of the shape appear?  Short answer; in the 2nd century starting   
   >>just after the time the NT was finished.   
   >>   
   >>3 church fathers wrote about the exact shape,ie. a pole ith a crossbar.   
   >>They wrote in greek and knew exactly the word for chross used in the NT as   
   >>pole .   
   >>   
   >>Two of these either new John and/or was a 2nd generation disciple of John.   
   >>For any who might want to follow up, they were Justin Martyr, Tertullian,   
   >>and Irenaeus.  The last two have the connection to John.   
   >>   
   >>One of the last describes the shape of the cross like the mast of a ship   
   >>with crosbar to hold a sail.  The greek word in the NT also used tthe greek   
   >>word "pole" to mean a ship's mast and other upright wooden items.   
   >   
   Friend  james ignores the above:   
      
   >Regardless of the rhetoric trying to justify the cross, the BIBLE (1st   
   >century) uses the word "staurus", an upright pole. That's just a fact.   
      
   Bingo bigo, give the man a prize.  Having not read to learn the above; he   
   in fact repeats part of it; way to go friend james; thanks for the   
   confirmation.   
      
   The 3 persons above spoke an wrote greek.  as said; they knew exactly the   
   NT wor in its basic meaning was "pole".  Yet all said that NT"pole" had a   
   crossbaar.  One said the cross was like a ship's mast,ie. a pole with cross   
   bar. One way the greeks also used the word "pole" was to mean a ship's mast   
   with crossbar exactly as he said..   
      
   Not forgetting, two of them had direct connection to Jhon who was present   
   at the crucifixion and knew exactly the variation of "pole" structure   
   involved..   
      
   Nope, e must go with the jw vatican which has no scholars of greek and a   
   glaring ignorance of the 1st century palistine.  Did I mention 2000 years   
   later?   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)