XPost: alt.bible, alt.religion.christian.biblestudy, alt.religion.christianity   
   XPost: alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic   
   From: none@none.con   
      
   On Oct 11, 2023, James wrote   
   (in article<5ohdiidhjnj3ib1mdauhib9ud67vg5fl9c@4ax.com>):   
      
   > On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 16:30:21 -0700, No one  wrote:   
   >   
   > > On Oct 7, 2023, James wrote   
   > > (in article):   
   > >   
   > > > Jesus = Michael the archangel?   
   > > >   
   > > > Don't call the men in white coats yet. Hear it out.   
   > > >   
   > > > Facts: There is apparently many “prince” angels, but only ONE   
   > > > archangel, Michael. And only one “great prince”. Dan 12:1a,   
   > > >   
   > > > “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will   
   > > > arise.“ (NIV)   
   > > >   
   > > > The name Michael in reference to the archangel is introduced in the   
   > > > book of Daniel Chapter 10. In Daniel, he is referred to as "Michael,   
   > > > your prince." (NIV) and "At that time Michael, the great prince who   
   > > > protects your people, will arise." (Dan 10:21; 12:1; NIV) Thus Michael   
   > > > is the prince of Daniel's people, the Israelites.   
   > >   
   > > Dan 10:13But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and   
   twenty   
   > > days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I   
   > > remained there with the kings of Persia.   
   > >   
   > > Michael is What? One of what? Why do you intend to deceive others?   
   > > >   
   > > > This connection to Daniel's people is an indicator that this angel is   
   > > > the same powerful angel that led the Israelites out of Egypt. (Ex   
   > > > 23:20, 21, 23; 32:34; 33:2) Some angel did, right? So it could have   
   > > > been Michael.   
   > >   
   > > Did you receive this knowledge from ChatGpt or some other AI entity?   
   > > It could have been any angel of the Lords.   
   > >   
   > > >   
   > > > But is there more evidence? Yes, the powerful angel Michael had a   
   > > > dispute with Satan about Moses' body. (Jude 9) Satan may very well   
   > > > wanted to trap the Israelites into relic worship, but Michael won and   
   > > > Moses body ended up in an unmarked grave. (De 34:6) Thus this Michael   
   > > > was very interested in the affairs of the Israelites.   
   > >   
   > > Michal was one of the angels, what evidence you showed here does not   
   support   
   > > any of your other guesses and suppositions.   
   > > >   
   > > > Jude refers to Michael as an archangel. The Bible doesn't name any   
   > > > other archangels. And the Bible never uses the word archangel in the   
   > > > plural form, indicating more than one exists. Thus this "Michael" has   
   > > > a unique position with God.   
   > >   
   > > Then you better refer to the verses you quoted at the fore, which I C&P for   
   > > the edification of all.   
   > > It shows your folly.   
   > >   
   > > >   
   > > > According to "Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament" the   
   > > > word "Archangel" means "Chief of the angels"; or as others say, "Chief   
   > > > angel". Other than God, the only other persons in the Bible that have   
   > > > authority over angels are Michael and Jesus. (Mt 25:31)   
   > >   
   > > It does not say that at all.   
   > >   
   > > Mat 25:31   
   > >   
   > > 31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with   
   > > him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:   
   > >   
   > > Why do you feel at liberty to lie, could it have been given you by the   
   > > father   
   > > of lies?   
   > >   
   > > >   
   > > > The Apostle Paul adds further information by connecting the word   
   > > > "archangel " with Jesus, in 1 Th 4:16,   
   > >   
   > > “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the   
   > > voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ   
   > > shall rise first:” (1Th 4:16)   
   > >   
   > > What angel or angels in heaven have trumpets to blow?   
   > >   
   > > Read, see, hear the word of the Lord.   
   > >   
   > > Rev 8:2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were   
   > > given seven trumpets.   
   > >   
   > > Rev 8:6And the seven angels which had the seventrumpets prepared themselves   
   > > to sound.   
   > >   
   > > Rev 8:13And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of   
   heaven,   
   > > saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by   
   > > reason of the other voices of thetrumpet of the three angels, which are yet   
   > > to sound!   
   > >   
   > > Rev 9:14Saying to the sixth angel which had thetrumpet, Loose the four   
   > > angels   
   > > which are bound in the great river Euphrates.   
   > >   
   > > >   
   > > >   
   > > > "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command,   
   > > > with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and   
   > > > the dead in Christ will rise first." (NIV)   
   > > >   
   > > > The scripture literally says "in voice of archangel" . It takes an   
   > > > archangel to have the voice of an archangel. And if there is only one   
   > > > archangel or "Chief angel", then it would have to be Jesus.   
   > >   
   > > Again you repeat a falsehood. See Dan 10:13 as posted above.   
   > >   
   > > >   
   > > > Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings and over all creation, so   
   > > > copying a subordinate angelic voice would not be appropriate here. (Re   
   > > > 19:16) Also, notice the Lord had the archangel's voice and with the   
   > > > "trumpet call of God"   
   > >   
   > > Yet you declare that Jesus is not God. Do you speak with the forked tongue   
   > > of   
   > > a serpent?   
   > >   
   > > > then a resurrection of the dead will occur.   
   > >   
   > > You are referencing it the final resurrection at the end of the millennium   
   > >   
   > > However, those that are in Christ...   
   > >   
   > > 1Th 4:15-17   
   > >   
   > > 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are   
   alive   
   > > and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are   
   > > asleep.   
   > >   
   > > 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the   
   > > voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ   
   > > shall rise first:   
   > >   
   > > 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them   
   > > in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with   
   the   
   > > Lord.   
   > >   
   > > And this happens at the end of this age, the age of the gentiles 1007 years   
   > > before the one you speak of.   
   > >   
   > > > No   
   > > > other heavenly creature has been given the authority over the dead   
   > > > except Jesus, who was given the keys of hades and death. (Rev 1:18)   
   > >   
   > > It says nothing about him having been given those keys.   
   > >   
   > > “I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore,   
   > > Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.” (Rev 1:18)   
   > >   
   > > > It wouldn't be appropriate for Paul to compare Jesus' voice with a   
   > > > subordinate angel who does not have authority over the dead. Jesus'   
   > > > voice would be completely superior to every other heavenly creatures'   
   > > > voice.   
   > > >   
   > > >   
   > > > So was Jesus Michael the archangel? The evidence is there. Some may   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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