XPost: alt.bible, alt.religion.christianity
From: nospam@nightbulb.net
On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 16:13:29 -0400
James wrote:
> Still believe in hellfire?
>
> Many Bibles translate the OT word "sheol" as hell.(or just leave it
> as "sheol") And it talks about people dying and going to sheol. So
> what is sheol?
>
> "What the Tanakh does make it clear, is that Sheol is not the place
> where evil people go. It’is just the place where everyone goes.
> Everyone dies and goes down to Sheol… even the patriarch Jacob knew he
> would go there, eventually. Here was his response after he heard that
> his son Joseph had died (although really, he had not):
Nonsense. The Tanakh does not teach your twisted interpretation.
"Sheol" does not mean, "grave."
The ancient biblical Hebrew word meaning a grave or sepulchre or burial
place is:
qbuwrah: ke-boo-rah.
It is NOT sheol.
Genesis 35:20
And Jacob set a pillar upon her grave [qbuwrah]: that is the pillar of
Rachel's grave [qbuwrah] unto this day.
And in this verse, the Hebrew word for "pillar" [matstsebeth] means a
tombstone. So we know that a grave or sepulchre with a tombstone is a
"qbuwrah", not a "sheol."
When speaking of a literal grave or sepulchre, that is the word used in
the Old Testament. When speaking of the world of the dead, the Old
Testament uses "sheol." Even Strong's Hebrew lexicon admits this:
[*StrongsHebrew*] : sheol
7585 sh'owl sheh-ole' or shol {sheh-ole'}; from 7592; Hades or the
world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its
accessories and inmates:--grave, hell, pit. see HEBREW for 07592
In ancient Hebrew culture, "going down to the grave" meant dying and
going to the afterlife realm. It did not mean being buried in a
sepulchre. The Watchtower interpretation is total nonsense with no
foundation in linguistic reality.
In ancient Hebrew, when one was "buried in his grave" the Old Testament
says they were buried in a keboorah or a kibrah, not a sheol. If sheol
means grave, then why did nobody in the Old Testament use sheol that
way?
"My father made me swear, saying, Lo, I die: in my grave [qbuwrah]
which I have digged for me in the land of Canaan, there shalt thou
bury me. Now therefore let me go up, I pray thee, and bury my father,
and I will come again."
In Hebrew you bury someone in a "qbuwrah" not a "sheol." The Hebrew
word for burying a body is "qabar" related to "qbuwrah". Bodies are
always buried in a qbuwrah, not in a sheol.
Numbers 11:34
And he called the name of that place Kibroth–hattaavah: because there
they buried the people that lusted.
Here we see the plural "Kibroth" which means graves where people are
buried for lusting. It does not say the "sheols of lust" but rather it
says, "the graves of lust."
So the King James translators rightly translated sheol as "hell" in
some places, as "hell" was the ancient English for the underworld
prison of souls, contiguious to the Greek hades. The Watchtower folk
etymology for sheol is totally unbiblical.
There is much more evidence of the falsity of the Watchtower sheol
shinola. The 800 pound gorilla in the living room is the Septuagint.
The Septuagint is an ancient Greek translation of the Hebrew Old
Testament. The Septuagint pre-dates the bogus New World Translation by
roughtly 2300 years and was translated by actual Hebrews who lived in
the ancient Hebrew culture. So they certainly knew the actual meaning
of the Hebrew word, "sheol." And their translation of the Septuagint
texts proves it.
And how did they translate the Hebrew, "sheol" into Greek? They
translated it, "hades". Not once did they translated it, "grave."
Not even once. And "hades" does not mean, "grave." It means the
realm of the dead where dying souls conscously exist. Thus when Jesus
gave the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, both Greeks and Hebrews
knew he was using a parable of the underworld existence which would be
understood by both Hebrews and Greeks. Nobody tried to correct Jesus
and say, "Hey, bub, we don't believe in the soul going to hell. We
believe that sheol is just unconscious dirt napping." Nobody believed
such a thing--not even the Sadduccees, who although denying the
resurrection, did not deny the existence of a spiritual realm where
souls go after the body dies.
Nobody in the ancient Greek or Hebrew world knew of the modern
Watchtower idea of soul sleep or unconscious non-existence after death.
Everyone, Greeks, Hebrews, Romans, Persians, all believed that upon
death a man went to hell to be reunited with his ancestors. This belief
was universal in the ancient near East, Europe, Asia, the Levant, North
Africa, and India. If you had tried to teach soul sleep to an ancient
Israelite in the camp of Moses you would probably have been beaten and
stoned to death.
The Septuagint was translated by Israelites and Jews circa 300 b.c. In
every occurrence of the word, "sheol" the Jewish translators translated
it as, "hades" and not once did they translate it as "grave." This Greek
translation was the chief Old Testament used by the Jews in the
synagogues. Only the most learned used the ancient Hebrew text, since
most of the people of the region spoke Greek or Aramaic for several
centuries.
So for rougly 400 years, the Old Testament used by the Jews in
Judea, Grecia, and Egypt, used the Greek concept of Hades when
discussing their scriptures, and not once did they interpret it to
mean, "grave." Watchtower folk etymology for "sheol" falls into the pit
of ignorance.
For 400 years none of the Jews or Israelites translated "sheol" into
the Greek word for, "grave." That should tell you the meaning of it.
This exposes the fallacy of your Watchtower doctrine of sheol. You're
trying to peddle sheol and shinola.
> Genesis 37:34-35
>
> "So Jacob tore his clothes, and put sackcloth on his loins and mourned
> for his son many days. Then all his sons and all his daughters arose
> to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted. And he said, “Surely I
> will go down to Sheol in mourning for my son.” So his father wept for
> him."
>
> For Jacob this was not a heaven or hell debate… it was merely saying
> that the loss of his son would kill him; it would put him in his
> grave, (not send him to hell). "
"Drought and heat consume the snow waters: so doth the grave those
which have sinned."
To "go down to sheol" means to descend into the underworld. It is in
reference to the afterlife abode of the soul. It is not a reference to
"unconscious death."
> https://hebrewwordlessons.com/2019/10/27/sheol-the-grave-gehenna-hades-hell/
>
> Thus sheol is the grave
> Thus hell is the grave.
[continued in next message]
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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