XPost: alt.bible, alt.religion, alt.religion.christian.biblestudy   
   XPost: alt.christnet.christianlife, alt.religion.christian.catholic   
   From: michaelmclean2021@outlook.com   
      
   On 1/05/2023 5:34 am, James wrote:   
   > On 26 Apr 2023 18:03:38 GMT, servant wrote:   
   >   
   >> In the same way these examples of "seeing God" are explained:   
   >> Genesis 32:30   
   >> Job 42:5)   
   >>   
   >> Friend james asks ffor our help understanding:   
   >>   
   >>> (3) How can you explain it?   
   >>>   
   >>> Exodus 33:11  And Jehovah spake unto Moses face to face, as a man   
   >>> speaketh unto his friend...   
   >>>   
   >> Answer, see in what context this happened, and was His face present to   
   >> physically behold?   
   >>   
   >>> Yet the Bible says:   
   >>>   
   >>> Exodus 33:20  But He said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see   
   >>> Me and live!"   
   >>   
   >> See the Job and Exodus above.>   
   >>> You are going to have to get a spiritual shovel and do some serious   
   >>> Bible digging on this one.   
      
   James W wrote:   
   >   -- Revised Standard   
   > Genesis 32:30  So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying,   
   > "For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life is preserved."   
   >   
   > - Revised Standard   
   > Job 42:5  I had heard of thee by the hearing of the ear, but now my   
   > eye sees thee;   
      
      
   > Then is God a liar at Ex 33:20? That will never happen because God   
   > CANNOT lie.(Titus 1:2)   
   >   
   > Neither Jacob nor Job actually saw God. Can you look directly at the   
   > sun without damaging your eyes? Better yet, if you were 20 feet from   
   > the sun, could you look at it? Well, God is a zillion times greater!   
   > And they would be instantly vaporized.   
      
   True.   
      
   If any man in the flesh had seen God with their literal eyes in the Old   
   Testament, he would have been fried on the spot - even to touch   
   something holy (Uzzah and the Ark).  Interestingly, one could assume   
   that in the New Testament one can't see God literally with our yet   
   corruptible bodies also.  Which again is interesting, in that I have   
   heard a number of preachers say over the years that Jesus walked into my   
   room. :O).   
      
   We relate to each other here with corruptible bodies, but to actually   
   live with God as beings like compared to here, we would absolutely   
   require incorruptible bodies to be with Him.   
      
   The Message Bible relates the subject in a novel way.   
      
   1Co 13:12  We don't yet see things clearly. We're squinting in a fog,   
   peering through a mist. But it won't be long before the weather clears   
   and the sun shines bright! We'll see it all then, see it all as clearly   
   as God sees us, knowing him directly just as he knows us!   
      
      
   > The explanation is simple. Jacob and Moses did not actually literally   
   > see God, but rather an angel representing God. ANGELS were the ones   
   > who gave the ten commandments and the rest, not God personally. The   
   > physician Luke tells us this:   
      
   Nothing about angels in those texts above, Buddy, it is a 'JW higher-up'   
   than you merely assuming, and you drinking down the JW religion.   
      
   It means, they saw God in their hearts!   
      
   Job 42:5  I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine   
   eye seeth thee.   
   Job 42:6  Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.   
      
   Heart posture.   
      
   If the truth be known, all our hearing and seeing is of the heart; we   
   are spiritual beings.   
      
   I don't think Adam and Eve literally saw God with their physical eyes   
   again after they sinned!  There is the reason they hide, not just the   
   shame, but the separation from the innocence "physical" state in the Garden.   
      
   Enoch "walked" with God with God's voice in his heart; hearing Him and   
   seeing Him.   
      
      
      
      
      
   Michael   
      
   > -- Revised Standard   
   > Acts 7:53  you who received the law as delivered by angels and did not   
   > keep it." .   
   >   
   > Sincerely James   
   > 4/10 fired guns   
   > an epidemic?   
   > Go to jw.org	   
   >   
      
   --   
   Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.   
      
   Rom 5:8  But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were   
   YET sinners, Christ died for us.   
      
   Jeremiah 10:23  O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it   
   is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.   
      
   "To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."   
      
   "If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."   
      
   "What makes the bible the truth?  The resonance of God."   
      
   "All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving   
   God with all their heart, soul and mind.  An abomination.  Therefore,   
   sin is not what you do, it is what you are."   
      
   "Compromise will condemn you."   
      
   "There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."   
      
   "My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."   
      
   "You can't learn righteousness.  Haven't you had enough time already to   
   know that?"   
      
   "The way of truth is the testimony of life."   
      
   "I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall   
   where God intends."   
      
   "Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."   
      
   "You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all   
   live, by faith."   
      
   "It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."   
      
   "Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look   
   ahead."   
      
   "You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."   
      
   "Priority is everything."   
      
   "The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."   
      
   "There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander   
   it or to place it where it truly belongs."   
      
   "An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."   
      
   "Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to   
   an ignorant straw man."   
      
   "Wait, rest, be still, and know."   
      
   "No man can wash his own hands!!!"   
      
   "I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,   
   and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."   
      
   The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the   
   obvious).  So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"   
      
   "The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."   
      
   "Man is not the centre of being."   
      
   "Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."   
      
   "And then the Lord said, "I see everything."   
      
   "Man has no greater idol than his own will."   
      
   "Where is God hiding? He isn't."   
      
   "If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."   
      
   "You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's   
   willingness to believe."   
      
   "Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,   
   and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."   
      
   "The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always   
   full of hope."   
      
   "The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass   
   through it so that you could play God."   
      
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)