XPost: alt.bible, alt.religion, alt.religion.christian.biblestudy   
   XPost: alt.christnet.christianlife, alt.religion.christian.catholic   
   From: michaelmclean2021@outlook.com   
      
   On 4/05/2023 6:37 am, James wrote:   
   > On Wed, 3 May 2023 09:39:23 +1000, Michael McLean   
   >  wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 2/05/2023 11:08 pm, James wrote:   
   >>> On Mon, 1 May 2023 09:45:18 +1000, Michael McLean   
   >>>  wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> On 1/05/2023 5:34 am, James wrote:   
   >>>>> On 26 Apr 2023 18:03:38 GMT, servant wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> In the same way these examples of "seeing God" are explained:   
   >>>>>> Genesis 32:30   
   >>>>>> Job 42:5)   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Friend james asks ffor our help understanding:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> (3) How can you explain it?   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Exodus 33:11  And Jehovah spake unto Moses face to face, as a man   
   >>>>>>> speaketh unto his friend...   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Answer, see in what context this happened, and was His face present to   
   >>>>>> physically behold?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Yet the Bible says:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Exodus 33:20  But He said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see   
   >>>>>>> Me and live!"   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> See the Job and Exodus above.>   
   >>>>>>> You are going to have to get a spiritual shovel and do some serious   
   >>>>>>> Bible digging on this one.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> James W wrote:   
   >>>>>     -- Revised Standard   
   >>>>> Genesis 32:30  So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying,   
   >>>>> "For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life is preserved."   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> - Revised Standard   
   >>>>> Job 42:5  I had heard of thee by the hearing of the ear, but now my   
   >>>>> eye sees thee;   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> Then is God a liar at Ex 33:20? That will never happen because God   
   >>>>> CANNOT lie.(Titus 1:2)   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Neither Jacob nor Job actually saw God. Can you look directly at the   
   >>>>> sun without damaging your eyes? Better yet, if you were 20 feet from   
   >>>>> the sun, could you look at it? Well, God is a zillion times greater!   
   >>>>> And they would be instantly vaporized.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> True.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> If any man in the flesh had seen God with their literal eyes in the Old   
   >>>> Testament, he would have been fried on the spot - even to touch   
   >>>> something holy (Uzzah and the Ark).  Interestingly, one could assume   
   >>>> that in the New Testament one can't see God literally with our yet   
   >>>> corruptible bodies also.  Which again is interesting, in that I have   
   >>>> heard a number of preachers say over the years that Jesus walked into my   
   >>>> room. :O).   
   >>   
   >> James wrote:   
   >>> Assuming what they said was true (that's a big ASSUME), Jesus is not   
   >>> God, so they saw God's Son, for Jesus was created by God:   
   >>   
   >> Impossible.   
   >   
   > Not only possible, but the Bible declares it.   
   >   
   > -- King James   
   > Colossians 1:15  Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn   
   > of every creature:   
   >>   
   >> This is very interesting, for when the Lord pushes me into a seeming   
   >> contradiction (from what I have said), it is always because He is   
   >> revealing some more truth. The Lord is always revealing truth, anyway,   
   >> but I mean in regard to the present context.   
   >>   
   >> What you should have said was, "How was it possible for men to see the   
   >> Lord Jesus Christ (pre and post-resurrection) if He is God?"   How about   
   >> you assume now Jesus IS God and how would you explain it?   
   >   
   > I can't, since I have to go by the Holy Scriptures   
   >>   
   >> I know the answer, but what usually happens is I explain these sorts of   
   >> the things and people usually, go "meh", and just piss it up against the   
   >> urinal.  So, your turn.  If you can "big assume" above about those men   
   >> actually seeing the Lord, how about you "big assume" Jesus is God and   
   >> try to explain them seeing Him with physical eyes in the Scriptures?   
   >   
   > If Jesus was God, there was a lot of dead apostles back then. As well   
   > as the crowds who followed him.   
   >>   
   >> Hey, what is good for the goose is good for the gander, if you can grasp   
   >> why I said that?   
   >   
   > My poor brain can't figure out your point. By sticking to the Bible,   
   > it does make sense.   
   >   
   >>   
   >> Here is a lead in, what caused us to separated from God,   
   >   
   > Sin and death.   
   >   
   >   
   >> what happened   
   >> on the cross,   
   >   
   > You mean on the stake. (Greek word is "stauros")   
   >   
   >> and what happened to veil of temple,   
   >> and what did that   
   >> signify?   
   >   
   > It was split down the middle. To me it represented a cutting off of   
   > Jews as being God's chosen people.   
   >   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>> -- Revised Standard.   
   >>> Colossians 1:15  HE IS the image of the invisible God, the first-born   
   >>> of all creation;   
   >>   
   >> First realise, God's image is eternal. He does not change, not   
   >> yesterday, not today, not forever.   
   >   
   > Tell something I don't know.   
   >   
   >>   
   >> We were MADE in God's image, the Lord Jesus Christ IS the ETERNAL image   
   >> of the invisible God, yesterday, today, and forever, and through Him is   
   >> the way, the truth, and the life.   
   >   
   > The Bible shows the difference.   
   > Jesus was CREATED. (Col 1:15) NOTICE THE CONTEXT. It is all about   
   > things being born. And Jesus died.   
   >   
   > But God always lived.:   
   >   
   > -- New King James   
   > Psalms 90:2  Before the mountains were brought forth, Or ever You had   
   > formed the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting,   
   > You are God.   
   >   
   >>   
   >> Note: "Through Him", not "because" of Him. Only God can save, only God   
   >> is the Saviour.   
   >   
   > The Bible also refers to Jesus (God's Son) as a savior.God gave Jesus   
   > the power to save also.   
   >>   
   >> And, goodness gracious, you did the Lord a great disservice by not   
   >> finishing that quote...   
   >   
   >   
   >>   
   >> Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and   
   >> that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or   
   >> dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him,   
   >> and for him:   
   >> Col 1:17  And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.   
   >   
   > Yes, God had Jesus assist Him in the creations. That is why Genesis   
   > says "We"   
   >>   
   >> God did not "made His image," Buddy.   
   >   
   > ??   
   >>   
   >> He always was.   
   >   
   > Yes, that is what I showed you above.   
   >   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>>> We relate to each other here with corruptible bodies, but to actually   
   >>>> live with God as beings like compared to here, we would absolutely   
   >>>> require incorruptible bodies to be with Him.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> The Message Bible relates the subject in a novel way.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> 1Co 13:12  We don't yet see things clearly. We're squinting in a fog,   
   >>>> peering through a mist. But it won't be long before the weather clears   
   >>>> and the sun shines bright! We'll see it all then, see it all as clearly   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)