XPost: alt.bible, alt.religion, alt.religion.christian.biblestudy   
   XPost: alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic   
   From: seaviews7@yahoo.com   
      
   On 6/23/2023 1:46 PM, No one scribbled:   
   > On Jun 23, 2023, servant wrote   
   > (in article<6495d0a4$0$2245$1c4686b2@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>):   
   >   
   >> Friend james proposes a theory:>   
   >>   
   >>> No one went to a confessional by the first century Christians.   
   >>   
   >> Correct, one by one individuals stood before the congregation for public   
   >> confession/absolution of their sins in the early church.   
   >   
   > No proof of that shown.   
   >>   
   >> How does the jw vatican prescribe practicing confession/absolution and on   
   >> what authority?   
   >>   
   >> 1 John says all blievers sin and confession of the sin is the cure. He   
   >> adds if someone says they do not sin; they are a liar.   
   >   
   > Confessing is not a cure. That is pretty obvious to everyone.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> As for who has the authority of absolution scripture declares:   
   >>   
   >> In the Gospel of John, Jesus says to the Apostles, after being raised from   
   >> the dead, "Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive, they are   
   >> forgiven; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained".   
   >   
   > That verse is also out of character and out of place. since on its face a   
   > person who was not Born Again could conceivably be forgiven against their   
   > will, against Gods will, and whether or not the person actually asked for it.   
   > That is not in conformity with any other part of scripture, especially when a   
   > person sins against or blasphemes the Holy Spirit. The only possible other   
   > explanation would be if a brother sinned agains them, could they forgive,   
   > similar to Peter asking Jesus about how many times should he forgives someone   
   > who offends them.   
   >   
   > Nowhere in the Book of Acts or in the Epistles do we find any instance of an   
   > apostle remitting the sins of anyone. They do go everywhere, proclaiming the   
   > forgiveness of sins. Let me ask the question: What is it that forgives sins?   
   > Even God cannot just arbitrarily forgive sins. Forgiveness of sins is only   
   > and alone through the blood of Jesus Christ. Back in the Old Testament, the   
   > forgiveness of sins was based on the fact that Christ would come and die. God   
   > saved “on credit†in the Old Testament until Christ would come and   
   > pay the penalty. Today God forgives our sins when we believe that Christ died   
   > for them.   
   >   
   > Also, there is a lame argument that people such as you use, in that this was   
   > spoken by the Lord to the Apostles. Your argument would then typically claim   
   > that it was to them alone and no one else. You all have used that argument   
   > many times for other similar points.   
   >   
   > So which is it?   
   >   
   >>   
   >> In the line of apostolic succession and for the church established by   
   >> Christ; a priest as the srvant and on behalf of his bishop can excersize   
   >> that authority.   
   >   
   > This was not assigned to a position of leadership. Specific or otherwise.   
   > There is NO "line of apostolic succession". That is totally unscriptural. No   
   > priest could ever forgive sins against God, not in the Old Testament, or the   
   > New.   
   >   
   > Mar 2:10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to   
   > forgivesins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)   
   >   
   > Jas 5:13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing   
   > psalms.   
   >   
   > Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church;   
   > and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:   
   >   
   > Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall   
   > raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.   
   >   
   > Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that   
   > ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth   
   > much.   
   >   
   > Notice who it is that forgives here, it is the Lord.   
   >   
   > Any man can forgive those that sin against them, "Let it not be held against   
   > them", we are commanded to forgive those who sin against us.   
   >   
   >>   
   >> That doctrine includes the lutheran and anglican churchs among protestants.   
   >> Other protestants have a general confession/absolution, ie. it is done by   
   >> the congregation as a whole in the presence of the pastor.   
   >   
   > Then show examples of that, and also show scriptural support for such a thing   
   > as you describe.   
   >   
      
   You want an example. Ha.  This is what is wrong with the King James   
   Version.   And the kings too.   
      
   1st book of kings   
   Samuel   
      
   And all the people said to Samuel: Pray for thy servants to the Lord thy   
   God, that we may not die, for we have added to all our sins this evil,   
   to ask for a king.   
      
   Yee all asked, when He was already our true God. Was not good enough?   
   Protestants   
      
   And the ones today, including politicians, think they can dupe him still   
   being more an more like this in thefts.   
   Fat chance.   
      
   So because of Abraham really believing in Him, not fuddy buddy,  HE   
   granted our prayers yes of the Protestants.  sinful as they were.   
      
   but that does not mean, they were forgiven for it.   That, is left up   
   true Jesus.  Not the one they back stabbed on the freemason altar.   
      
   Pagans, Prostestants,  same thing.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)