XPost: alt.bible, alt.religion, alt.religion.christian.biblestudy   
   XPost: alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, alt.christnet.christianlife   
   From: truecatholicstaff@truecarpentry.org   
      
   On 10/11/2023 9:50 AM, servant wrote:   
   > I implore readers to read friend james response, the truth will be known   
   > in his attempt at  . obfuscation his tactics are revealed.   
   >   
      
      
   you know as well as i know, that they do not get attention unless they   
   change a word.   And their sour pride, wants that attention, and that,   
   is why they called it a pole in the greek version instead of a cross.   
   Yet, the original was hebrew.  It was a cross. and the facts are, the   
   Greek did not exist when the scrolls were written of until it was   
   translated changed from the Hebrew.   Into Greek.   
      
   Its sad, but pride, is a mortal sin.  No one will change this.   
   An Jws, are about the worst type of protestant you can get.  Most of   
   them, are permanently apostatized.  If I were you servant, I would waste   
   my breath on someone else.   They do not care on little bit about truth.   
      
      
   >>> How does friend james take the evidence, he helps me:   
   >>>   
   >>>>> The jw vatican dlaims the church in the first part of the 4th century   
   >>>>> changed the shape of the cross from being a pole to the familiar shape   
   with   
   >>>>> a pole having a crossbar.   
   >   
   > See if friend james refutes the evidence the above is unfounded, 2nd church   
   > writers described it as a pole ith a crossbar.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Very very good, that claim is easily tested in history.  When did the   
   first   
   >>>>> writings of the shape appear?  Short answer; in the 2nd century starting   
   >>>>> just after the time the NT was finished.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> 3 church fathers wrote about the exact shape,ie. a pole ith a crossbar.   
   >>>>> They wrote in greek and knew exactly the word for chross used in the NT   
   as   
   >>>>> pole .   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Two of these either new John and/or was a 2nd generation disciple of   
   John.   
   >>>>> For any who might want to follow up, they were Justin Martyr, Tertullian,   
   >>>>> and Irenaeus.  The last two have the connection to John.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> One of the last describes the shape of the cross like the mast of a ship   
   >>>>> with crosbar to hold a sail.  The greek word in the NT also used tthe   
   greek   
   >>>>> word "pole" to mean a ship's mast and other upright wooden items.   
   >>>>   
   >>> Friend  james ignores the above:   
   >>>   
   >>>> Regardless of the rhetoric trying to justify the cross, the BIBLE (1st   
   >>>> century) uses the word "staurus", an upright pole. That's just a fact.   
   >>>   
   >>> Bingo bigo, give the man a prize.  Having not read to learn the above; he   
   >>> in fact repeats part of it; way to go friend james; thanks for the   
   >>> confirmation.   
   >>>   
   >>> The 3 persons above spoke an wrote greek.  as said; they knew exactly the   
   >>> NT wor in its basic meaning was "pole".  Yet all said that NT"pole" had a   
   >>> crossbaar.  One said the cross was like a ship's mast,ie. a pole with cross   
   >>> bar. One way the greeks also used the word "pole" was to mean a ship's mast   
   >>> with crossbar exactly as he said..   
   >>>   
   >>> Not forgetting, two of them had direct connection to Jhon who was present   
   >>> at the crucifixion and knew exactly the variation of "pole" structure   
   >>> involved..   
   >>>   
   >>> Nope, e must go with the jw vatican which has no scholars of greek and a   
   >>> glaring ignorance of the 1st century palistine.  Did I mention 2000 years   
   >>> later?   
   >>   
   >> To the readers of servant:   
   >>   
   >> I have already posted Bible scholars who PRAISED the New World   
   >> Translation. Either they are morons also, or that translation is a   
   >> scholarly work. Use your own judgment.   
   >>   
   >> FACT; FACT; FACT. The Bible uses the word "staurus". (an upright pole)   
   >> Let's repeat that.   
   >>   
   >> The Bible uses the word "staurus". (an upright pole)   
   >> The Bible uses the word "staurus". (an upright pole)   
   >> The Bible uses the word "staurus". (an upright pole)   
   >> The Bible uses the word "staurus". (an upright pole)   
   >> The Bible uses the word "staurus". (an upright pole)   
   >>   
   >> I don't know what else to say.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)