XPost: alt.bible, alt.religion   
   From: none@none.non   
      
   On Feb 28, 2025, NightBulb.net wrote   
   (Message-ID: <3eC3UgwknK0GyOKKlTUZgUf2@nightbulb.net>):   
      
   > On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 16:13:29 -0400   
   > James   wrote:   
   >   
   > > Still believe in hellfire?   
   > >   
   > > Many Bibles translate the OT word "sheol" as hell.(or just leave it   
   > > as "sheol") And it talks about people dying and going to sheol. So   
   > > what is sheol?   
   > >   
   > > "What the Tanakh does make it clear, is that Sheol is not the place   
   > > where evil people go. It’is just the place where everyone goes.   
   > > Everyone dies and goes down to Sheol… even the patriarch Jacob knew he   
   > > would go there, eventually. Here was his response after he heard that   
   > > his son Joseph had died (although really, he had not):   
   >   
   > Nonsense. The Tanakh does not teach your twisted interpretation.   
   > "Sheol" does not mean, "grave."   
   >   
   > The ancient biblical Hebrew word meaning a grave or sepulchre or burial   
   > place is:   
   >   
   > qbuwrah: ke-boo-rah.   
   >   
   > It is NOT sheol.   
   >   
   > Genesis 35:20   
   > And Jacob set a pillar upon her grave [qbuwrah]: that is the pillar of   
   > Rachel's grave [qbuwrah] unto this day.   
   >   
   > And in this verse, the Hebrew word for "pillar" [matstsebeth] means a   
   > tombstone. So we know that a grave or sepulchre with a tombstone is a   
   > "qbuwrah", not a "sheol."   
   >   
   > When speaking of a literal grave or sepulchre, that is the word used in   
   > the Old Testament. When speaking of the world of the dead, the Old   
   > Testament uses "sheol." Even Strong's Hebrew lexicon admits this:   
   >   
   > [*StrongsHebrew*] : sheol   
   > 7585 sh'owl sheh-ole' or shol {sheh-ole'}; from 7592; Hades or the   
   > world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its   
   > accessories and inmates:--grave, hell, pit. see HEBREW for 07592   
   >   
   > In ancient Hebrew culture, "going down to the grave" meant dying and   
   > going to the afterlife realm. It did not mean being buried in a   
   > sepulchre. The Watchtower interpretation is total nonsense with no   
   > foundation in linguistic reality.   
   >   
   > In ancient Hebrew, when one was "buried in his grave" the Old Testament   
   > says they were buried in a keboorah or a kibrah, not a sheol. If sheol   
   > means grave, then why did nobody in the Old Testament use sheol that   
   > way?   
   >   
   > "My father made me swear, saying, Lo, I die: in my grave [qbuwrah]   
   > which I have digged for me in the land of Canaan, there shalt thou   
   > bury me. Now therefore let me go up, I pray thee, and bury my father,   
   > and I will come again."   
   >   
   > In Hebrew you bury someone in a "qbuwrah" not a "sheol." The Hebrew   
   > word for burying a body is "qabar" related to "qbuwrah". Bodies are   
   > always buried in a qbuwrah, not in a sheol.   
   >   
   > Numbers 11:34   
   > And he called the name of that place Kibroth–hattaavah: because there   
   > they buried the people that lusted.   
   >   
   > Here we see the plural "Kibroth" which means graves where people are   
   > buried for lusting. It does not say the "sheols of lust" but rather it   
   > says, "the graves of lust."   
   >   
   > So the King James translators rightly translated sheol as "hell" in   
   > some places, as "hell" was the ancient English for the underworld   
   > prison of souls, contiguious to the Greek hades. The Watchtower folk   
   > etymology for sheol is totally unbiblical.   
   >   
   > There is much more evidence of the falsity of the Watchtower sheol   
   > shinola. The 800 pound gorilla in the living room is the Septuagint.   
   >   
   > The Septuagint is an ancient Greek translation of the Hebrew Old   
   > Testament. The Septuagint pre-dates the bogus New World Translation by   
   > roughtly 2300 years and was translated by actual Hebrews who lived in   
   > the ancient Hebrew culture. So they certainly knew the actual meaning   
   > of the Hebrew word, "sheol." And their translation of the Septuagint   
   > texts proves it.   
   >   
   > And how did they translate the Hebrew, "sheol" into Greek? They   
   > translated it, "hades". Not once did they translated it, "grave."   
   >   
   > Not even once. And "hades" does not mean, "grave." It means the   
   > realm of the dead where dying souls conscously exist. Thus when Jesus   
   > gave the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, both Greeks and Hebrews   
   > knew he was using a parable of the underworld existence which would be   
   > understood by both Hebrews and Greeks. Nobody tried to correct Jesus   
   > and say, "Hey, bub, we don't believe in the soul going to hell. We   
   > believe that sheol is just unconscious dirt napping." Nobody believed   
   > such a thing--not even the Sadduccees, who although denying the   
   > resurrection, did not deny the existence of a spiritual realm where   
   > souls go after the body dies.   
   >   
   > Nobody in the ancient Greek or Hebrew world knew of the modern   
   > Watchtower idea of soul sleep or unconscious non-existence after death.   
   > Everyone, Greeks, Hebrews, Romans, Persians, all believed that upon   
   > death a man went to hell to be reunited with his ancestors. This belief   
   > was universal in the ancient near East, Europe, Asia, the Levant, North   
   > Africa, and India. If you had tried to teach soul sleep to an ancient   
   > Israelite in the camp of Moses you would probably have been beaten and   
   > stoned to death.   
   >   
   > The Septuagint was translated by Israelites and Jews circa 300 b.c. In   
   > every occurrence of the word, "sheol" the Jewish translators translated   
   > it as, "hades" and not once did they translate it as "grave." This Greek   
   > translation was the chief Old Testament used by the Jews in the   
   > synagogues. Only the most learned used the ancient Hebrew text, since   
   > most of the people of the region spoke Greek or Aramaic for several   
   > centuries.   
   >   
   > So for rougly 400 years, the Old Testament used by the Jews in   
   > Judea, Grecia, and Egypt, used the Greek concept of Hades when   
   > discussing their scriptures, and not once did they interpret it to   
   > mean, "grave." Watchtower folk etymology for "sheol" falls into the pit   
   > of ignorance.   
   >   
   > For 400 years none of the Jews or Israelites translated "sheol" into   
   > the Greek word for, "grave." That should tell you the meaning of it.   
   >   
   > This exposes the fallacy of your Watchtower doctrine of sheol. You're   
   > trying to peddle sheol and shinola.   
   >   
   > > Genesis 37:34-35   
   > >   
   > > "So Jacob tore his clothes, and put sackcloth on his loins and mourned   
   > > for his son many days. Then all his sons and all his daughters arose   
   > > to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted. And he said, “Surely I   
   > > will go down to Sheol in mourning for my son.” So his father wept for   
   > > him."   
   > >   
   > > For Jacob this was not a heaven or hell debate… it was merely saying   
   > > that the loss of his son would kill him; it would put him in his   
   > > grave, (not send him to hell). "   
   >   
   > "Drought and heat consume the snow waters: so doth the grave those   
   > which have sinned."   
   >   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-DOS v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)